I want to get a streetable stroker (run on pump gas) built to make atleast 500rwhp and close to 500 rwhtq. I drive my 01 TA (a few mods- 400+rwhp) daily so it must still be streetable but also a beast when I get on it. I wanted to build a 408 and put a procharger on it but I don't think I'll build it for boost, so maybe a shot of nitrous is possible to put me well over the 500rwhp goal. This car is mainly a dd for now and does see some track time. I'm not sure what size stroker to go with. So what do you think the setup would be like? Ideas? (Input is needed.)

Current setup:

stock block
ls1 intake
stage 2 ported 243's
230/234 .612/.598 112+4 cam
1 3/4 hooker headers
tsp cat'd y
moser 12 bolt 3.73's, detroit true trac
spohn tq arm
3.5" steel driveshaft
ds loop
ls7 clutch
pro 5.0 shifter
160 thermo
taylor wires
ngk plugs
k&n fipk
(*I can't remember any other mods right now. It's been a long day @ work.)


Thanks
Billy

 

408 500 N/A through a t56 500 through other trans it will take more money and be less streetable but 408 or 402 is what you should do

 

I was thinking a 402/408, but I am unsure of what parts to use to achieve my goal. $$ isn't really the problem, I'm wanting to have it build with the best quality/reliable parts.

 

The cam you have now is actually not a bad choice for a 500/500 400cid motor...

But, depending on your budget, you could go with AFR 205s or TFS 215s/225s and make 500/500 pretty easily. For a cam, something in the mid to upper 230s would work wonders. Make sure it has a FAST 92/92 combo and an exhaust that can support the big engine (1-3/4" headers will work, but make sure you have a really good y-pipe and catback or true duals).

Vengeance recently did a 402 with the TFS 215 and Vindicator and made around 515/510 with a GMMG catback. Tony Mamo has done a couple of 402s with AFR205s that provide similar results.

There was an old tread about an SLP 402 with an off-the-shelf MS3, FAST90, and AFR 205s. It did 510/495 with Kooks 1-3/4" headers.

I think if you just go for a 500rwhp 346 package and add the 402 under it - you'll hit your 500+rwhp and get the torque too and it'll be very streetable.

 

I had plans on going with a ported fast 92/92, trying to keep my current headers and maybe upgrading the exhaust. I could always upgrade the headers as well. This stock exhaust is really restricting me as it is on my current 346 setup. I'll have the cats cut off of the tsp y that I have now to allow the exhaust to flow out better.

 

The most important part of your setup is going to be three things:

1) How good the clearances are to you build
2) The heads you choose to use
3) The tuner's knowledge and his ability to do street setups for driveability.

With all that said, the first and third one you ultimately aren't in control of. I mean, you can choose your builder and your tuner, but that doesn't necessarily guarantee your success either.

The heads however, are up to you. Don't just go with the ones that have the highest peak CFM flow rates. Those are always going to let you down. Look for low and mid-range flow rates for BOTH INTAKE & EXHAUST and also you must consider the flow velocity of the heads as well. DO NOT opt for 225cc and expect your block to jump thru the hood of your car when you mash it. You simply need to know what type of motor you want, how it will respond to throttle position, and what configuration is going to yield those results that you want.

I would say this...get a local builder...
Build a 402 LS2 block w/ the corresponding reluctor wheel for your car.
Use Diamond or Wiseco pistons
Eagle Rods and Crank
AFR 205CC heads worked over WELL by Tony Mamo
Same cam that you have, but be ready to possibly purchase another one.
1 7/8" headers
Electric Cut-outs
All auxillary bolt-ons such as FAST 92/92 ported by Tony as well, UDP, EWP, and all that other good stuff.
Setup a 125 shot of NOS and hope for 600whp/625wtq on the spray.

 

there are a couple of places selling already assembled 408 shortblocks for like 3500 i think that would be my way to go and then buy some afr,tea's,or tfs 225'235's or go all out e.t 245-255

 

The reason I would suggest a local builder over a production one from an aftermarket company is that you have the ability to closely watch the build and make sure the builder is doing things according to your specs. It's just a preference to me. I wouldn't spend $6K+ on a setup without knowing the exact specs, blue prints, flow sheets and being able to occasionally drop in on the build.

But if you don't know the first thing about building a motor, then I would still suggest a local builder but instead of relying on the builder to come up with specs, parts, etc, I would call a reputable shop or individual and have them spec out a setup with safe, proven record of results. If your not getting some type of guarantee or warranty on your pre-production long block setup then you might as well have it done your way for the assurance.

Then again I could be wrong.

Some other head info...

Best ones to consider (in my opinion)

-AFR 205cc (Mamofied) Awesome throttle response and broad powerband
-AFR 225cc (Mamofied) Decent response but a little stronger up top
-TFS 225cc (Worked if possible) Probably something like an AFR225cc
-TFS 235cc " " " " " Really strong up top
-E.T. 245+cc Capable of stupid power up top but don't count on anything strong in the low end.

Anything above 225cc and you'll need a bigger cam in my opinion if you want to take advantage of the top end ability. If your car is 3500+ lbs I would recommend staying between 205cc-225cc heads for the good throttle response and drivability everyday--which is key. The car will roll out faster than an all top-end monster.

Here would be my criteria for a strong street setup.
-Great torque (something like 425+ for a few thousand rpm's.)
-Great response (fast intake velocities)
-Medium cam w/ a hefty lift & probably a 112 LSA
-A powerband that can be flexible to all types of gears (in case your not happy with what you have)
-6500 RPM rev limit for longevity

 

Moved from the dyno results section. More eyes in here.

 

local shops build all motors others on here deal with mostly ls1's so that would be my choice

 

I appreciate everyone's input so far. I'm going to call a few shops back home and see what they can put together for me. I don't really trust the guys near me to build an engine that they have never worked on before.

 

Well not everyone gets to have the luxury of a good LS builder I suppose.

 

See here in Germany there aren't that many ls1 mechanics floating around.

 

I'll pm you with some information, I'm actually working with someone right now in Germany who had a new engine fail on them. You have a few options to look at. If you going to stay n/a we can go with an LQ9 418 as one example to hit your power mark.

 

I think I know who your dealing with here in Germany. I've actually seen what happened to his block and internals...what a shame.

A 418 sounds great. I could achieve my goals with that ci? Would it be possible to dd this and still achieve the power numbers? I'm not too concerned with peak numbers but power under the curve. It won't be a dd forever but it will get driven freaquently. I basically want a street/strip beast. Could this 418 also take some n20? I was thinking of putting a shot on it.

 

427 cid Aluminum, that is what I would shoot for and TFS 225.
Why? because no matter how radical you make the motor, there will be intake restrictions, so bigger cubes will make that mark easier and stay more street friendly.
Definately another cam

 

We would hit your mark n/a but its a n/a build only. It uses a longer stroke than 4" so we dont recommend a power add. The diveability comes with head and cam selection but yes it would very good for a daily driver.

Yea Brian has my sympathy over what happened to him. That type of failure should never happen

Predator is right, bigger cubes makes bigger power in a very usable range. Brian just went this route...LOL he was looking at a 403 and then just pumped it up to a L92 427

 

So if I were to go with a 427 could I spray it as well? Or is this just a all motor, no power adder type motor as well? I want it to be all motor but if I needed a little more hp then I would like to have the spray around. I don't have to have spray...it's for just in case. The idea of a 427 is great. Is there a difference in the 427's that the two of you are talking about? I don't plan on making this purchase very soon, but if I did would it be possible to get it as a long block to also include the intake, new headers, etc, that I would need? I'm pretty sure that this will be a lot more than the planned 402/408 build. I'm going to have to save a few more $$ for this....lol.

 

Yep I can set you up with a complete engine if thats what you need. No this is another non-power add. Longer than 4" stroke and we don't recommned power adds. Thats not to say some aren't doing them, we just don't advise it. I'll cover reasoning with you. It's been a hottly at times debated subject on here at times and I'm not going to debate iot with anyone...LOL

The 408 is the least money of all the 3 you've listed. We could do a 416 that would be n2o and boost friendly and in the same price range as the 427. Good heads on top and your at your power goals with a power add friendly setup.

I've got to get shipping charges to Germany to Brian this morning and then I'll be able to give you an idea of what that will cost as well

 

Thanks.