Holley hi_ram issue l93 ls3 300-117/116
11-05-2012, 09:37 AM
#41
also last gripe:
It does not come with a throttle cable bracket and talking to the tech they do not offer a bracket for this manifold right now. Nor did he know of an aftermarket bracket thet will wrok and fit right.
Again, not an issue for me because I have the tools to custom build one but for others this will be an issue
It does not come with a throttle cable bracket and talking to the tech they do not offer a bracket for this manifold right now. Nor did he know of an aftermarket bracket thet will wrok and fit right.
Again, not an issue for me because I have the tools to custom build one but for others this will be an issue
11-05-2012, 01:06 PM
#43
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I just recieved mine and I just got off the phone with Holley Tech. I gave them the link to this so hopefully they will address what is going on here.
As for mine I had to run a bottom hole tap in every hole. Not a big thing but they tap did have to cut alot to clean up the holes. Symple fix for those of us that have the tools and know how to fix.
I also ran into injector issues. Mine is a little differetn then yals issues. My bosses are machined down so far they fuel rail holes would not line up once the injectors were seated all the way. I run the taller LS1 style injector. I was able to mark, drill and tap new fuel rail holes between the two existing holes to line everything up. But if I had the shorter LS3 style injector I would have had to weld up a new boss unider the existing ones and drill and tap them to make it all fit right. Not something as symple to fix as running a bottom hole tap.
I am not presently asking for a replacement manifold since I was ablr to "finish" the manifold.
two fo the runners are machined quite a bit on the outside for the intake manifold bolt holes. This kills any room inside the port for porting those two runners. Ii is not an issue for me to orrect because I can tig this up myself and fix it myself if need be.
Still all and all I would expect any Holley product to fit correctly from the gitgo. Usually any Holley product you by is ready to bolt up without you having to finish the quality fit. Not really what I have come to expect from Hooley.
As for mine I had to run a bottom hole tap in every hole. Not a big thing but they tap did have to cut alot to clean up the holes. Symple fix for those of us that have the tools and know how to fix.
I also ran into injector issues. Mine is a little differetn then yals issues. My bosses are machined down so far they fuel rail holes would not line up once the injectors were seated all the way. I run the taller LS1 style injector. I was able to mark, drill and tap new fuel rail holes between the two existing holes to line everything up. But if I had the shorter LS3 style injector I would have had to weld up a new boss unider the existing ones and drill and tap them to make it all fit right. Not something as symple to fix as running a bottom hole tap.
I am not presently asking for a replacement manifold since I was ablr to "finish" the manifold.
two fo the runners are machined quite a bit on the outside for the intake manifold bolt holes. This kills any room inside the port for porting those two runners. Ii is not an issue for me to orrect because I can tig this up myself and fix it myself if need be.
Still all and all I would expect any Holley product to fit correctly from the gitgo. Usually any Holley product you by is ready to bolt up without you having to finish the quality fit. Not really what I have come to expect from Hooley.
my main complaint is about the injector encroching on the oring mounting and the machine differences from side to side and product to product they are all different no 2 is alike
11-17-2012, 07:23 PM
#46
TECH Fanatic
After reading this thread, 3 mths ago at the start of the thread Holley were aware of the issues here, they like many businesses tend to ignore problems in the hope they will go away.
Us guys that have these issues with people like this need to flame them to hell so others don't get caught up with their crap products.
It sure makes other businesses 'sponsors' on here that have impeccable customer service stand out.
Those very few firms know who they are, just wish others could learn from them.
Us guys that have these issues with people like this need to flame them to hell so others don't get caught up with their crap products.
It sure makes other businesses 'sponsors' on here that have impeccable customer service stand out.
Those very few firms know who they are, just wish others could learn from them.
12-14-2012, 09:34 PM
#49
12-14-2012, 09:59 PM
#50
I just recieved mine and I just got off the phone with Holley Tech. I gave them the link to this so hopefully they will address what is going on here.
As for mine I had to run a bottom hole tap in every hole. Not a big thing but they tap did have to cut alot to clean up the holes. Symple fix for those of us that have the tools and know how to fix.
I also ran into injector issues. Mine is a little differetn then yals issues. My bosses are machined down so far they fuel rail holes would not line up once the injectors were seated all the way. I run the taller LS1 style injector. I was able to mark, drill and tap new fuel rail holes between the two existing holes to line everything up. But if I had the shorter LS3 style injector I would have had to weld up a new boss unider the existing ones and drill and tap them to make it all fit right. Not something as symple to fix as running a bottom hole tap.
I am not presently asking for a replacement manifold since I was ablr to "finish" the manifold.
two fo the runners are machined quite a bit on the outside for the intake manifold bolt holes. This kills any room inside the port for porting those two runners. Ii is not an issue for me to orrect because I can tig this up myself and fix it myself if need be.
Still all and all I would expect any Holley product to fit correctly from the gitgo. Usually any Holley product you by is ready to bolt up without you having to finish the quality fit. Not really what I have come to expect from Hooley.
As for mine I had to run a bottom hole tap in every hole. Not a big thing but they tap did have to cut alot to clean up the holes. Symple fix for those of us that have the tools and know how to fix.
I also ran into injector issues. Mine is a little differetn then yals issues. My bosses are machined down so far they fuel rail holes would not line up once the injectors were seated all the way. I run the taller LS1 style injector. I was able to mark, drill and tap new fuel rail holes between the two existing holes to line everything up. But if I had the shorter LS3 style injector I would have had to weld up a new boss unider the existing ones and drill and tap them to make it all fit right. Not something as symple to fix as running a bottom hole tap.
I am not presently asking for a replacement manifold since I was ablr to "finish" the manifold.
two fo the runners are machined quite a bit on the outside for the intake manifold bolt holes. This kills any room inside the port for porting those two runners. Ii is not an issue for me to orrect because I can tig this up myself and fix it myself if need be.
Still all and all I would expect any Holley product to fit correctly from the gitgo. Usually any Holley product you by is ready to bolt up without you having to finish the quality fit. Not really what I have come to expect from Hooley.
12-14-2012, 10:05 PM
#51
I have mine together and started the car. I still have a ton of work to make it ready to go to the track.
It looks like to me they figured out the injector bungs were too high because mine are cut short. With my tall injector that placed the fuel rail almost halfway between the two holes already drilled and tapped for the two different injector hight. I was lucky because i was able to symply makr and drill new mounting holes between the others. If I had the short injectors I would of had to tig weld below the injector mounting bosses so I could drill and tap holes to mount the fuel rails.
Other than that and no bracket for the throttle cable (which I built) I really do like what I see.
I had the intake flowed on three different cylinder heads. A set of Mass Motorsports Small Bore LS3 heads (these are some of the best heads for 346ci engine I have seen so far), my extreamly ported heads (lS3 factory casting) which out flow the Mass only because of the larger valve size and a ton of port work and welding, and a set of Mass Motorsports LS7 heads (which flow much better then mine).
Granted the LS7 port does not match my intake right, but even still the intake with my 92mm throttle body clamped on that head only cut the flow back by about 2 percent. That is with all the injector holes plugged, and all the open intake ports covered. Not bad, the Fast 102 LS7 manifold they had would lost over 10 percent of the air flow.
On the Mass LS3 small bore the intake had no lose, it did not help the head but it did not hurt it.
On my head it was anly about a .5% lose.
Now for the guys that are thinking they might want to switch from a single plane intake to this manifold, we also flowed the Mass small bore head with a single plane intake. It did NOT have any throttle body or elbow on top, so keep that in mind. The single planes we flowed only cut the head flow down about 2%. None of the plastic manifolds we flowed on the head would get within 13% of the head. Remember this is the small valve LS3 head for the small bore.
The single plane intakes would kill the head flow on my ported heads, but they have alot of work and large valves in them. Once the tight radius elbow is on I would expect the flow to drop more.
So I would say considering we flowed the Holley with a 92mm throttle body on it on severl different heads with minamul to no flow lose, this manifold looks to be a very nice peice, once the injector and fuel rail flaws are fixed.
The runners are very thick and would seam to have plenty of room to port on. I do not like the fact there are a few runners that had the outside machined to clearence for intake bolts. this will restrict taking to much material out of the intake when ported.
I also wish they would have made more room between the two intake holes on the back of the manifold. One is for the MAP sensor and the other for the brake booster. I taped the smaller hole for the MAP sensor for a fitting ( I run a 3 bar MAP that will not fit directly) This configuration of the two holes made everything a little tight.
It looks like to me they figured out the injector bungs were too high because mine are cut short. With my tall injector that placed the fuel rail almost halfway between the two holes already drilled and tapped for the two different injector hight. I was lucky because i was able to symply makr and drill new mounting holes between the others. If I had the short injectors I would of had to tig weld below the injector mounting bosses so I could drill and tap holes to mount the fuel rails.
Other than that and no bracket for the throttle cable (which I built) I really do like what I see.
I had the intake flowed on three different cylinder heads. A set of Mass Motorsports Small Bore LS3 heads (these are some of the best heads for 346ci engine I have seen so far), my extreamly ported heads (lS3 factory casting) which out flow the Mass only because of the larger valve size and a ton of port work and welding, and a set of Mass Motorsports LS7 heads (which flow much better then mine).
Granted the LS7 port does not match my intake right, but even still the intake with my 92mm throttle body clamped on that head only cut the flow back by about 2 percent. That is with all the injector holes plugged, and all the open intake ports covered. Not bad, the Fast 102 LS7 manifold they had would lost over 10 percent of the air flow.
On the Mass LS3 small bore the intake had no lose, it did not help the head but it did not hurt it.
On my head it was anly about a .5% lose.
Now for the guys that are thinking they might want to switch from a single plane intake to this manifold, we also flowed the Mass small bore head with a single plane intake. It did NOT have any throttle body or elbow on top, so keep that in mind. The single planes we flowed only cut the head flow down about 2%. None of the plastic manifolds we flowed on the head would get within 13% of the head. Remember this is the small valve LS3 head for the small bore.
The single plane intakes would kill the head flow on my ported heads, but they have alot of work and large valves in them. Once the tight radius elbow is on I would expect the flow to drop more.
So I would say considering we flowed the Holley with a 92mm throttle body on it on severl different heads with minamul to no flow lose, this manifold looks to be a very nice peice, once the injector and fuel rail flaws are fixed.
The runners are very thick and would seam to have plenty of room to port on. I do not like the fact there are a few runners that had the outside machined to clearence for intake bolts. this will restrict taking to much material out of the intake when ported.
I also wish they would have made more room between the two intake holes on the back of the manifold. One is for the MAP sensor and the other for the brake booster. I taped the smaller hole for the MAP sensor for a fitting ( I run a 3 bar MAP that will not fit directly) This configuration of the two holes made everything a little tight.
12-14-2012, 10:10 PM
#52
I did install them all the way in to get the nozzle of the injectors to the correct depth.
I put this intake on my 2002 Firebird. I did have to remove the cowling all the way up to and slightly under the windshield. Doing this opened the dash up through the firewall. I blocked the air inlet to the passenger compartment on the passenger side. I built ignition coil rail stands and located my coils inside the steal dash, ran longer MSD plug wires I cut to length. I do like the coils completly hidden from veiw.
I also ran all the engine wiring (I am running the BS3 system) under the intake manifold and the injector wires go from the center out past each runner to the injector. It really cleans up the wiring hidding them like that.
I have some pics I will try and post up.
I put this intake on my 2002 Firebird. I did have to remove the cowling all the way up to and slightly under the windshield. Doing this opened the dash up through the firewall. I blocked the air inlet to the passenger compartment on the passenger side. I built ignition coil rail stands and located my coils inside the steal dash, ran longer MSD plug wires I cut to length. I do like the coils completly hidden from veiw.
I also ran all the engine wiring (I am running the BS3 system) under the intake manifold and the injector wires go from the center out past each runner to the injector. It really cleans up the wiring hidding them like that.
I have some pics I will try and post up.
12-14-2012, 10:26 PM
#55
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Do you have any pictures of your injector bungs? You said yours were cut down? My injector sits high in the bore almost seems the spray will hit the injector bore walls.
12-14-2012, 10:38 PM
#56
I did not take any pictures. I did push the injectors all the way in and mounted the fuel rail were I wanted it so everything fit right. I can tell you my injector nozle tips are the same depth as the single plane was.
Are you running the tall injectors (LS1 length) or shart injectors (LS3 length).
Are you running the tall injectors (LS1 length) or shart injectors (LS3 length).
12-14-2012, 10:48 PM
#57
I did install them all the way in to get the nozzle of the injectors to the correct depth.
I put this intake on my 2002 Firebird. I did have to remove the cowling all the way up to and slightly under the windshield. Doing this opened the dash up through the firewall. I blocked the air inlet to the passenger compartment on the passenger side. I built ignition coil rail stands and located my coils inside the steal dash, ran longer MSD plug wires I cut to length. I do like the coils completly hidden from veiw.
I also ran all the engine wiring (I am running the BS3 system) under the intake manifold and the injector wires go from the center out past each runner to the injector. It really cleans up the wiring hidding them like that.
I have some pics I will try and post up.
I put this intake on my 2002 Firebird. I did have to remove the cowling all the way up to and slightly under the windshield. Doing this opened the dash up through the firewall. I blocked the air inlet to the passenger compartment on the passenger side. I built ignition coil rail stands and located my coils inside the steal dash, ran longer MSD plug wires I cut to length. I do like the coils completly hidden from veiw.
I also ran all the engine wiring (I am running the BS3 system) under the intake manifold and the injector wires go from the center out past each runner to the injector. It really cleans up the wiring hidding them like that.
I have some pics I will try and post up.
12-14-2012, 11:11 PM
#58
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I did not take any pictures. I did push the injectors all the way in and mounted the fuel rail were I wanted it so everything fit right. I can tell you my injector nozle tips are the same depth as the single plane was.
Are you running the tall injectors (LS1 length) or shart injectors (LS3 length).
Are you running the tall injectors (LS1 length) or shart injectors (LS3 length).
12-14-2012, 11:13 PM
#59
Either, really. They were too high for the ls3 short injectors (manifold isnt made for short injectors, and holley specifies that, actually) but they were too low for medium length injectors too (one hole above, one below), as my spacers did not line up correctly either. I slotted the fuel rail.