JL, put a vacuum pump on it.... no more leaks

 

Reading comprehension failure. Reread...

I agree. You'd be spending about the same amount for springs, lifters, rockers, etc... that you would on any other big build. The only difference would be the work towards getting the heads ready to assemble.

My desire for wanting these is different than something like JL is looking to build. I have a rather large single turbo sitting in my garage that I think these would work pretty well with. With heads that flow this well you wouldn't need to push it to the edge to make insane power. I'm not looking at building a ***** out racecar either. With that in mind, I'll take ti intake valves, inconel exhaust, steel seats, way less spring pressure, and drop in lifters. If we get lucky as we have so far Edelbrock is supposedly making an intake manifold for these.

Again, stock suspension drag radial car. I'm not knocking it in any way, but on the same point you aren't cutting any corners and are building this thing to the hilt.

 

Why on god's green earth would you cut corners? A home port job and some catalog parts aren't going to save you any money down the road when said parts take a dump and you trash the top end(and bottom end in all probability). That once 12-15k top end(done the right way) now becomes twice that. There is a lot to be said for doing it right the first time, and if you don't want to spend the change to do it right the first time, these aren't the heads for you.

 

A pump gas 555cid BBC with RFD Edelbrock heads (same guy doing the LSR heads) would smoke any size LSX with any LSR, LXR or whatever heads and COST HALF as much to build. This thread is getting out of whack...

 

New bullet is going to get one, it's sitting here looking pretty on an engine stand. It's not exactly what I wanted.. but what I paid for it I could part this motor out really easy, and make 3 grand on it.. so I can't complain.

For what I want, it should work. Just need a moroso pan, intake, injectors and rails, Tb, balancer and a vacuum pump&drive for it, and the motor is ready. (another 5 grand essientially)

 

Agree on the build cost. However, does that 555 car go 8.50s @ 3500lbs? Dont be so sure...

 

Hell I'm trying to go 8.50 @ 2800 lbs. 3500?!? Jesus JBM your ****'s MOVING if it's running those #'s at that weight!

 

I don't want this thread go of topic but if you were going to buy a set of these heads why wouldn't build the motor full tilt. It doesn't matter if you are building a Drag Radial, Outlaw 10.5 or a bracket car. Anyone willing to spend $1500 each for a rough un-ported casting should understand the cost involved in making it final.

You can't compare a LS and BB Chevy for prices on shelf type parts. The sales volume is no where the same and their-fore making it not as cost effective on LS stuff.

Now skip over the off the shelf parts like these heads and look at prices. You now have to pay someone to sit a design a port design, make as many changes it takes to get them right, cost of wasted castings for RnD etc... You also have to pay the guy for the time it takes a $500,000 5-Axis CNC to port the final head, take it out to a $200,000 CNC lathe and mill to finish it off. I will tell you Curtis ( RFD ) Cary ( PI ) etc... will not touch it for less then $3000-$4000 to finish them off. Their is a lot of time involved and money that get's invested. All for a LOW VOLUME #'s. Their is the cost. Call Sonny, CFE, Dart and see what the non shelf heads go for. I know, I deal with or have dealt with them all. We do this stuff every day here at our shop for our-selfs.

Now you have to put parts in that bare casting and if you think you could cut cost on the parts your crazy. If you don't plan on revving the thing or putting a .850 or cam in it the heads would be a waste anyway. Also once you get into big lift now you need the parts to handle the spring pressure you have to run. Try running a $400 set of lifters, $200 Push Rods and $750 set of rockers with 400PSI static and 1200PSI open. You can't do a thing if you don't have valve control. I have seen cost effective stuff run on the spintron. Your going to have a big pile of scrape before you ever get anywhere and have to buy parts twice or 3 times until you see that the entry level or middle of the road stuff will not work. At the end of the day it will have cost me less to wait and do it right then to try and save a little here and their.

 

 

Amen. This is why I have sold my soul to go .85 faster.

 

Seriously that's moving man, congrats on that it's got to be a huge effort!

How off am I thinking that 8.50 can be done @ 2800 lbs with a liberty transmission... what am I looking at for n/a power to get there, I'm guessing 760 to 800 at the tires, maybe less with the weight, and liberty?

 

i think its gona take a little more then GCRE 408 to get 8.50s out a 2800lb car

 

I'm not building a car to run 6.90s in the 1/4, that's why. I'm looking to have something that is cruisable with AC, PS, and will run a 7.9x on a kill tune with consistant 8.20s at around 3000lbs.

Having better heads on the car means I won't have to push it as hard to make the same power I would otherwise. Like we mentioned before the price of parts to assemble these are the same as they would be for other heads, but you're picking up roughly an extra 70cfm through the curve. Not having to push the engine as hard is easier on parts which is the exact opposite of what you're talking about. If I was looking to run 6.90s I wouldn't skip any little detail either. All I'm simply talking about is running 1.550 dual springs instead of some crazy 1.6x triple springs. I'm not talking about trying to use stock rockers and 5/16ths pushrods.

 

Read Eddie's post and get back to be. Just the money in R&D/CNC'ing, etc. is going to be extreme let alone trying to use medium tier parts. Hell, you don't even know what will or won't work until you start putting the combo together, and that is where the big money comes into play...buying something that should work in theory and actually having to modify the heads or other parts to work is when it will nickel and dime you to death. These heads just aren't cost effective for a middle of the road effort, but if you do try it make sure you post up your results and cost as it should make for some interesting reading.

 

I'm sure it is but the question remains how much.

2800 lb's is mustang weight, I've seen those cars go WAY faster then you'd think, and it's a raceweight thing.

Your typical mustang, is about 2800 lbs, maybe a little less (some are ALOT less) and they're going that fast, with 200 hp less then it takes a normal f body to get there...

 

...not to sound smart, but is that a joke? It isn't a fair comparison due to cubic inches. The point I was trying to make was on price versus speed and it sounds like we agree there... But even on pump gas the 555cid torque curve would be overwhelming as compared to a smaller cubic inch LSX engine and thus would have more steam to move the heavier vehicle. If you are talking about weight, my father's 9.800 deck Big M block weighed in roughly the same as my 9.260 deck LSX. The BBC will weigh little more than LSX because the parts are larger and heavier. But hell I would say run these motors in any shape or form. Aluminum blocks, etc... the big motor wins every time.

 

Agree 100% here Eddie, I didn't cut any corners with my build but I do see some room for improvement (isn't that always the case?). $400 for lifters? Where? LOL...Try $1500 (as you know). Anyway, As you said, it's the R&D that makes the cost prohibitive for most guys.

I'm already planning on putting a BBC together as a backup to my LSX. Just in case. LOL

 

The comparison you initially made was a pump gas bbc vs a max effort lsx build. Yes, I agree with you on going faster with the bbc for WAY less cash. And yes, max effort bbc would whoop up on the lsx. But a basic pump gas bracket motor vs the max effort lsx? Id take the lsx if its built correctly. And no, it wasnt a joke. Do you know of any pump gas bbc that go 8.50s @ 3500lbs?

 

Anybody & everybody has or can make a BBC fast, But to go fast with a LSX thats making 1000 to 1100 hp N/A.... Now that is something. We should be part of the 1000+ N/A hp club here soon...........

scot

 

Half as much to build, I think not.