The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Jim85IROC, I understand what you're saying, I too don't like to just 'blindly' trust people either, but I know that there really isn't a 'best' cam per say. Any cam will have specific characterisitics, which is why I decided to talk to an engine builder and describe the characterisitics I was after, and then let them specify what cam, heads, intake exhaust that was needed to acheive those results. Fact is, you can use modeling software as much as you want, but you actually have to put the parts together and test them to get true, real world results. It's no different than chemistry. I can model a reaction, and come up with a theoretical result, but without getting on the bench and doing the reaction/experiment, it's still only theoretical chemistry.

Again, this is the difference between a parts supplier and a speed shop with engine builders. Their time, research and knowledge is what you are paying for.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (6)

You're absolutely right... I just haven't yet become comfortable with it yet.

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

Exactly. Unless you're building a very specific combination for racing, all cam selections are a compromise. Some want more low end and mid range. Others want peak numbers. Heck some guys just want them to sound a certain way.

We design and spec cams that try to achieve as much as possible, while sacrificing as least as possible. We do not offer cams that make big power at the expense of low end or mid range torque. Do we loose some sale because of this? Probably.

87silverbullet

iTrader: (11)

So you have never done business with a company and they give you something free first to entice you and then with knowing of the product you then buy it? Xmradio 3 months free then $10 a month? Test drive a car for a day or 2 then buy it?

Who the hell is Jon? By the way, as in my previous post we are done here. Mods go ahead and lock it or whenever they are done, I don't care.

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

How'd that work out for XM and the auto industry? Perhaps both VERY bad examples of a business model. One was going belly up until purchased by a competitor and the other required a MASSIVE government bailout.

Jon is mostly well know for his work in reviving the Druid religion and sacrificial practices. He resides in a large hollowed out tree in upstate NY where he spends his daylight hours making some very trick parts for various race teams.

Smart guy but watch out for that evil eye thing...

BlueThunder2

iTrader: (3)

Hey 87SilverBullet. Long time no see.

I know exactly what you are talking about. When I build a customer's setup, I first ask what the goals are. What the final outcome of the car needs to be. Then I spend some time to do the research required, and call them back with what I feel they need/want, and discuss it with the customer (along with specs) and see how they feel about it. That way the customer is happy with me and my shop before I even start, and they know exactly what they are getting.

.....and, imagine that, some of the BIGGEST/MOST Well Known Companies in the business do it this way!

I will share anything with anyone in order to help them out. Unless, of course, my customer wants his information kept secret.

Orr89rocz

iTrader: (13)

YOu are talking about building engines here... the parts need to be purchased first before any work is done, unless there is a written contract between the two outlining the payment terms. The last thing I want to do is have to front cash to buy someone's rotating assembly and block work, and have them back out at the last minute. I'm now stuck with the parts.

Everyone may do it to a certain way but usually for a motor build its money up front first. My last shortblock I paid half the complete quoted price. that first half money purchased the rotating assembly and paid for balancing/etc and most of the block. Last half finished up rest of the block price, the machine work, test assembly for clearances and shipping/packaging.

IHEARTLS1

iTrader: (1)

hey i want you to buy an engine from me but i can't tell you the cubic inches or the compression ratio. i can't tell you what type of pistons are in it. its a secret because people will steal our ideas. just know that it is "the baddest ls engine on the planet".


what's the difference?

you and your company are clueless. like i said earlier, where do you get most of your business? thats right ls1tech and the internet. i wonder how performance companies have survived decades without people stealing their super awesome #1 ideas over and over again? maybe lunati, comp, etc should start making their cams secret and just call them STAGE 1 cam, STAGE 2 cam, STAGE 3 cam. i just wonder what things you people would be messing up if ls engines didn't exsist.

josh1

iTrader: (3)

Did I miss something here? Dam, didnt know this thread would turn into a battle of whats right and whats wrong. Just wanted to know if anyone was running this cam and how it ran lol. I see were Shawn and Ed are coming from, but I also see were sometimes people get alittle worried when putting alot of money into something and not knowing all of what they are getting. I have never done business with Shawn before, but have with Ed, and he did a great job tuning my procharged gto and made awesome numbers for being a stock non stalled auto. I would like Ed to tune my car when this build is done, but it will be up to him and shawn if they dont mind tuning something they didnt build. I would have gone with them since they are local and do a awesome job, but this build came out of no were basically, just me taking off procharger kit and finding a good deal from a fellow gto member and buying his motor from another good shop AES and dealing with a very helpful person like Fraser. I dont want to burn any bridges here and am neutral here and just want something that will be reliable and run better times then my procharged times were. I know I dont know everything about what cam is the best, I just put my trust in whoevers building my motor to do what they think will make it the best combo for me. This is not going to be a $30,000 build by near, barely $6,000, so if it makes over 500rwhp (which I know, numbers mean nothing, only track times ) with a stalled auto, I will be jumping for joy. I just want to be able to reach low 11's N/A or high 10's N/A and maybe later down the road upgrade acouple things. I have a new born baby to worry more about these days and arguing about whos fastest or whos makes more power, cause theres always somebody out there with something better, just have to be happy with what you have is the real and only reason to do a build.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Before you start bashing VA Speed for how they do business, ask them how business is going. From what I've gathered, business is booming for them, and there's a reason why, it's because they are good at what they do, arguably the best. There's a big difference between your example of buying an engine without knowing the cubes or compression ratio vs. knowing the exact specs of every clearance and tolerance and how they honed the cylinders etc etc.

Perfect example is when I asked about what type of cam Ed would reccomend for the PI 215 heads I was interested in, his response was it was a mid 22x/ mid 23x cam. Enough said and lift was less than 620. What else did I need to know? I'm not an engine builder.

IHEARTLS1

iTrader: (1)

there is a big difference between piston wall clearance and camshaft specifications like we are talking about. business is booming because of websites like this. the best is when someone tells you anything other than "you must check PV clearance every time." this is when you run into trouble. this is just one example of what happens when you generalize or oversimplify anything in an engine build. the best i can do is agree to disagree with anyone who thinks they don't need critical specifications of their engine and parts they buy for it. hell i welcome it when it comes to the competition. the less thought out their combo is, the greater chance they have of losing or breaking.

The Alchemist

iTrader: (19)

Reread the posts by Ed and Shawn, every customer knows what every part is in their engine. The key to this is customer. Become a customer, which takes some trust, and you'll certainly know every spec of every item you purchase from them.

josh1

iTrader: (3)

Your cool Ed, got to defend the shop, I totally understand. I just dont see how this post turned out like this so fast lol. You guys do awesome things and would still like to get tuned. I know the cam is way too big and wasnt really considering it too much, just was more of a curiousity thing of finding out more about how it did with other peoples setups. My builder fraser told me it was mainly a cam used in 427 or 454 combos, and that it would surge while crusing if not able to keep rpms over 2000grand.

edcmat-l1

iTrader: (10)

There is also a big difference in telling PAYING CUSTOMERS what their cam specs are and telling EVERYONE ELSE ON AN INTRAWEB BOARD what the cam specs are, just so they can circumvent you and go buy it some where else. We don't keep specs from our customers. They pay for them. You want cams specs? Pay for them. We'll even throw in the cam for free!

Josh, sorry your thread turned out like this. None of this garbage is directed towards you.

If you want a cam for your motor, give us a call. As for the tuning, we'll be happy to tune it for you when you're ready.

Shawn @ VA Speed

iTrader: (3)

this is what a clueless shop's engine build room looks like-took these pics this morning.There is only one person clueless in this thread-and that is you.By calling Virginia Speed clueless,you also call all of our happy customers clueless,i believe they would argue your opinion.Have a good life,however sad it must be for you.


must be alot of rich 17 year olds out there-here is thier stuff

thedak

iTrader: (1)

Yeah.

Yo Momma

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I really don't understand the problem here...

Shawn and Ed choose not to publish all the data in the public domain...they had extensive R&D in gaining this information and knowledge

They provide all the data to the customers (I know exactly what cam was in my 1800hp VA Speed motor)

Divulging all your information is not a way to attract new customers...performance of combinations for recent/previous customers is

recent accolades that they've achieved:
fastest single turbo small block drag radial car (Phil Thomas 4.70@164 (1/8)...shawn built the motor)
fastest OEM LS-block combination (My setup 7.99 @ 180...shawn built the motor)

WKMCD

iTrader: (2)

So, what are your cam specs?

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

Bet a few people would sh%t themselves if they saw them...specs weren't anything special...where we had it installed...well that was something totally different