Valve springs for boosted LSX ?
11-15-2010, 05:09 PM
#21
To me sounds bit much for hyd. roller, 250lbs seat/600lbs open pressure i've seen 8mm rocker bolts get torn out of the heads with solid roller. My point is, if 600lbs of pressure is enough to take out a rocker arm, on the lifter/cam its taking a beating.
Backpressure doesn't concern you?
Last edited by AES Racing; 11-15-2010 at 05:55 PM.
11-15-2010, 06:20 PM
#22
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
The only hydraulic lifters I know of that are capable of withstanding that much pressure are a certain Morel (not all will handle it) and a Comp R or Shubeck style lifter. I personally think that spring may be a little overkill for your app. I wouldn't go over 200 seat and 500 open.
Just my $.02
Shane
Just my $.02
Shane
11-15-2010, 07:48 PM
#24
What do you think of 570lbs open pressure with a hydraulic lifter?
To me sounds bit much for hyd. roller, 250lbs seat/600lbs open pressure i've seen 8mm rocker bolts get torn out of the heads with solid roller. My point is, if 600lbs of pressure is enough to take out a rocker arm, on the lifter/cam its taking a beating.
To me sounds bit much for hyd. roller, 250lbs seat/600lbs open pressure i've seen 8mm rocker bolts get torn out of the heads with solid roller. My point is, if 600lbs of pressure is enough to take out a rocker arm, on the lifter/cam its taking a beating.
If you feel like waiting a few months we are comming out with some new ls1 duals that will be some killer springs. That is if you can wait. I know how the mod bug is, sometimes it doesn't like to wait .
As far as back pressure thats kinda touchy and I am not an expert there. You will have back presure but the same time there is blow through/scavageing going on. Even with the backpressure (now I may be wrong so don't quote me) you still have positive and negative pulsations.
11-17-2010, 11:47 AM
#27
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for all the input. Any theories on how the the seals got hammered like this. Looks like they got hit from both sides.
Edit: Looks like Photobucket is out of order right now so the pics aren't showing.
Edit: Looks like Photobucket is out of order right now so the pics aren't showing.
11-17-2010, 01:00 PM
#28
Too little spring pressure could do the same thing, though I would venture it was cup/ID.
11-17-2010, 02:02 PM
#29
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It did take a fairly good tug to pull the inner springs off the locators.
The seal in the pic is one of the good ones. It's just scratched from me pulling it off.
The seal in the pic is one of the good ones. It's just scratched from me pulling it off.
11-17-2010, 02:05 PM
#30
Seeing that makes me think of a vortec truck trying to run too much lift on stock guides. Looks like they were just pounded out. Maybe the seal did not hold well to the guide and it came up, got hit and hammered down, then the valve brought it back up again and repeated the process over and over. Did you check the height of your guides?
11-17-2010, 03:39 PM
#32
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that 4 intakes and 1 exhaust seal were totally destroyed. Clearance does look a little tight for the lift I am measuring. Say .020" on this one. Just not sure how that would cause the bottom end of the seal to get hammered.
11-17-2010, 03:44 PM
#33
Maybe its the lifters pumping up and smashing the seals and just hammering them down until they look like that. Did you check the height of your valve guides? You may be fine on coil bind and such on the spring, but just like with the old cast iron vortec heads, your retainer may be hitting the seal dead on.
It looks exactly like that is what was happening. So that makes me wonder if the valve guides have either backed out or were not installed in deep enough to begin with. Or the valve height/spring pocket is not consistent. Are the valve seats all in good condition?
It looks exactly like that is what was happening. So that makes me wonder if the valve guides have either backed out or were not installed in deep enough to begin with. Or the valve height/spring pocket is not consistent. Are the valve seats all in good condition?
11-17-2010, 04:06 PM
#34
11-17-2010, 11:36 PM
#38
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Posts: 1,954
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Guys, its really no mystery here. I've seen this time and time again with any of Cary's heads. With the added weight of the valve (longer AND larger dia.) It is almost impossible to control a solid stem stainless valve ESPECIALLY with heavy shaft mount rockers AND 1.8 ratio. I promise, I've fought this battle more than once since the early ETP days. You will need the Manley 221435's set up around 190-200 on the seat. PROBLEM SOLVED. I have seen this issue on more than one occasion. As Brian stated, he is not only bouncing the valves off the seat but lofting them as well. That is what is tearing up his seals. I have many ETP LS6 and LS7 style heads in applications from mild to wild. Cary, Craig and I have been through the ringer on this stuff. I promise, buy the parts from whoever you want, I'm just trying to solve your problem for you.
Your only other option is TI valves... This would give you some insurance. Even the Manley's will be tasked at 20PSI with solid stainless valves...
Thanks,
Shane
Your only other option is TI valves... This would give you some insurance. Even the Manley's will be tasked at 20PSI with solid stainless valves...
Thanks,
Shane
11-18-2010, 09:21 AM
#39
Teching In
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know this discussion is being centered around ETP heads. But do heads with a more stock geometry (AFR's, Trickflows, PRC etc..) have these same valve spring requirements?
11-18-2010, 07:34 PM
#40
This is generally someone who is running something like an XE-R or LSK lobe and boost, which is a bad idea.
If running boost, get a slower cam lobe, like the Comp Extreme Marine or something slow and stable. When running a hyd roller cam with boost, high RPM stability will buy you more top end horsepower than all of the ramp speed in the world...