What do you want to see from Katech in 2011?
01-25-2011, 08:18 AM
#62
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01-25-2011, 12:21 PM
#63
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Just like how Fast has held the top spot on the ls intake, another company needs to make a water pump other than Meziere and do it for cheaper.
We also know you have a lot in the road race programs for GM but you don't have any stake in the drag race market, which 90% of us do on this site. I would like to see more out of KATECH in a drag race interest. Build a drag car and lets see if you can walk the walk like some of the other sponsors here.
Show us you can beat TSP's 9.66 on a stock cube stock bottom end ls1 with an off the shelf cam like they did.
Put something together and compete in the LSX shootout like most of our vendors do on this site. You choose damn near any class you want:
All motor
Power adder
Whatever
Show us you can build something that goes in a straight line and not just around the curves.
We also know you have a lot in the road race programs for GM but you don't have any stake in the drag race market, which 90% of us do on this site. I would like to see more out of KATECH in a drag race interest. Build a drag car and lets see if you can walk the walk like some of the other sponsors here.
Show us you can beat TSP's 9.66 on a stock cube stock bottom end ls1 with an off the shelf cam like they did.
Put something together and compete in the LSX shootout like most of our vendors do on this site. You choose damn near any class you want:
All motor
Power adder
Whatever
Show us you can build something that goes in a straight line and not just around the curves.
This is kind of like saying " I'd really like to see Samsung make recliners because 90% of us sit in chairs. Prove you can recline and offer massage like LaZboy"...
There are numerous companies that are VERY good at drag racing. Katech is great at roadracing.Possibly the best when it comes to endurance racing engines.Personally, I'd like them to stay focused on road racing.Possibly do some standing mile and open road racing business.
I'd like to see more 4th Gen F-Body road race specific components. These cars are cheap and plentiful and would make a great platform for relatively inexpensive roadracing.
When you buy stuff rfom Katech you arent just paying for a chunk of metal. even though that piece is made well from good materials. You are also paying for the extensive research and development that has gone into that part or system. How many vendors can claim the records Katech can? Who has won more races against more signifigant competition? Who has shown less failures during a 24hr race?
Seems alot of people carry their wal-mart mentality with them wherever they go. Its the same stuff why isnt yours cheaper? Katech doesnt usually sell the same stuff. Remember the engineering and testing behind their parts.
Last edited by Cheatin' Chad; 01-25-2011 at 12:27 PM.
01-25-2011, 02:06 PM
#64
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I don't get this..I can buy a custom ground cam from comp for $407 shipped to my door. I've bought several through LPE for $389 custom ground by comp cams and you know LPE doesn't sell anything at a loss...
01-25-2011, 03:16 PM
#65
Maybe Comp charges them the vette tax.
Here is something to try Katech. Since the vettes have a good front/rear ratio because of the motor in the front and trans in the rear, how about developing a setup like that to go in the 98-02 f-bodies. It wouldn't take much to make an f-body specific torque tube and use a vette trans and rear to be modified into an f-body. Make it bulletproof enough to road and drag race on. This would be something that wouldn't cost too much on r&d and benefit all of the community.
01-25-2011, 04:20 PM
#68
If it does not cost that much to do, then why do you not do it and make money on it? I am not trying to carry on a pissin match. But honestly, if you think it would not cost alot of money nor would it take hacking up an entire F body to even make anything fit, then you are sadly mistaken.
Katech means something that would be viable and marketable in the real world. Yes, some of their parts and builds are pricey. But they are still somewhat affordable to the guy that saves up for it.
That project would be an utter waste of time and unaffordable for nearly anyone in the F body world.
If you want IRS and the trans in the back, you are stuck with the ones that come with it from the factory right now.
It makes me assume that you have not even seen an entire driveline outside of a vette, nor seen the space it takes up.
Katech means something that would be viable and marketable in the real world. Yes, some of their parts and builds are pricey. But they are still somewhat affordable to the guy that saves up for it.
That project would be an utter waste of time and unaffordable for nearly anyone in the F body world.
If you want IRS and the trans in the back, you are stuck with the ones that come with it from the factory right now.
It makes me assume that you have not even seen an entire driveline outside of a vette, nor seen the space it takes up.
01-25-2011, 05:28 PM
#69
If it does not cost that much to do, then why do you not do it and make money on it? I am not trying to carry on a pissin match. But honestly, if you think it would not cost alot of money nor would it take hacking up an entire F body to even make anything fit, then you are sadly mistaken.
Katech means something that would be viable and marketable in the real world. Yes, some of their parts and builds are pricey. But they are still somewhat affordable to the guy that saves up for it.
That project would be an utter waste of time and unaffordable for nearly anyone in the F body world.
If you want IRS and the trans in the back, you are stuck with the ones that come with it from the factory right now.
It makes me assume that you have not even seen an entire driveline outside of a vette, nor seen the space it takes up.
Katech means something that would be viable and marketable in the real world. Yes, some of their parts and builds are pricey. But they are still somewhat affordable to the guy that saves up for it.
That project would be an utter waste of time and unaffordable for nearly anyone in the F body world.
If you want IRS and the trans in the back, you are stuck with the ones that come with it from the factory right now.
It makes me assume that you have not even seen an entire driveline outside of a vette, nor seen the space it takes up.
There are guys here that do 20-30-40K motor builds so making a set up as I said earlier would not even be possibly near 30 grand for it.
As for not seeing a vette, I was a tech at a GM dealer and I own one.
As for my idea it was just a suggestion so don't get your tighties in a wad.
Where's your bright idea? Also, you know what "assume" spells right?
01-26-2011, 01:36 AM
#70
Here is something to try Katech. Since the vettes have a good front/rear ratio because of the motor in the front and trans in the rear, how about developing a setup like that to go in the 98-02 f-bodies. It wouldn't take much to make an f-body specific torque tube and use a vette trans and rear to be modified into an f-body. Make it bulletproof enough to road and drag race on. This would be something that wouldn't cost too much on r&d and benefit all of the community.
01-26-2011, 04:33 AM
#71
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WOW! I'm pretty new here but please allow share with you guys how I (in my mind) interpreted Katech's responce and you guys can tell me if I'm thinking wrong or not.
My translation: It doesn't matter if we could sell it for cheaper or not but because another shop sells X part for a little more we must be "competitively priced". Stop b!tchin cause we ain't changing our prices.
My translation: We don't care and supporting our customer don't really concern us that deeply as long as we can make a buck off you fools. We wanna sell what we wanna sell but if you idiots want to pay us full price for half the product we'll be glad to take it.
My translation AGAIN: We don't care and supporting our customer don't really concern us that deeply as long as we can make a buck off you fools. We wanna sell what we wanna sell.
My translation: Blah, Blah, Blah. Thats impossible! Only a Truly Skilled shop could handle a project like that! 
My translation: Excuse me but I have nothing to say!
Did I understand that all right or did I miss something?
My translation: It doesn't matter if we could sell it for cheaper or not but because another shop sells X part for a little more we must be "competitively priced". Stop b!tchin cause we ain't changing our prices.
Many people have bought flywheels at that price. We were not selling them separately at first but later decided to do so because of customer demand and other products in the market. Frankly I'm not too concerned with selling flywheels by themselves and providing all the engineering information that we have worked so hard to get, but if people want to figure it out on their own that is fine. There are a few applications that we have now or in the works that are not simple bolt-ons and have required the engineering of more parts. Right now we have C6, V1 CTS-V, F-body/GTO, 2010+ Camaro, and G8 GXP. We are more concerned with selling the complete clutch kits that we have engineered, which are priced competitively.
My translation: We don't care and supporting our customer don't really concern us that deeply as long as we can make a buck off you fools. We wanna sell what we wanna sell but if you idiots want to pay us full price for half the product we'll be glad to take it.
We sell GM parts for list price. We have to. We buy from a GM dealer like everybody else. We don't have any special price hook ups from GM like people assume. I really don't care if we sell any GM hot cam kits. We're not in the business of buying and selling other people's parts for slim profit margins and dealing with the internet price wars. If other vendors want to make 3% PM on parts they can go ahead. We can't keep the heat on in the building for that. We are more interested in engineering and manufacturing our own unique products using our racing experience.
Very interesting thought with the V10. It's a nice dream, but definitely a dream. The resources to do something like that would be staggering. To give you a comparison, the XV16 engines we did for GM cost about a quarter million dollars each. Engineering something like a V10 with the final product being $20k is a dream.
I've been on vacation since January 15th. First of all, I would never bash any other shop. We won't do it. I wish I could sell cams for $389, but our cams are ground by Comp and at that price I would be selling them at a loss.
(NOT)
I'm not telling anybody that we are making anything in this thread. I'm asking for what you want to see. Whether or not we make it will depend on demand and if it can be produced at a price that people want to buy it and we can make a profit on it. I don't announce that we are doing something until it is either ready to purchase, or a prototype has been tested and the first batch is in process.
(NOT)
I'm not telling anybody that we are making anything in this thread. I'm asking for what you want to see. Whether or not we make it will depend on demand and if it can be produced at a price that people want to buy it and we can make a profit on it. I don't announce that we are doing something until it is either ready to purchase, or a prototype has been tested and the first batch is in process.
My translation: Excuse me but I have nothing to say!
Did I understand that all right or did I miss something? Last edited by HAVOK_RLS2; 01-26-2011 at 04:41 AM.
01-26-2011, 07:15 AM
#72
Wow, you really don't have a clue.
I am not a katech nutswinger at all, but do you even have any idea what the cost of just the parts would be to build a v-10 ls based engine? Even assuming there were NO engineering or r&d cost, just the block and cylinder heads would blow the 20k. They would have to be billlet...
What everyone has to consider is the cost of developing some of this la-la land **** that people are dreaming about against the potential sales volume. Take the vette driveline in a f-body. the very most would be what 5-6 a year? And that is assuming 4 of those got mad cow disease.
As far as the Di heads. The total cost for that would have to run close to $10k after you bought the heads and fuel system. Are you willing to spend that kind of cash for what 40 HP?
As far as what I would like to see, valve covers on the shelf and another option for remote mounting the coils on a vette. Completely away from the valvecovers. Some of the pro-touring guys are mounting them low, around the oil pan.
JMHO people....
I am not a katech nutswinger at all, but do you even have any idea what the cost of just the parts would be to build a v-10 ls based engine? Even assuming there were NO engineering or r&d cost, just the block and cylinder heads would blow the 20k. They would have to be billlet...
What everyone has to consider is the cost of developing some of this la-la land **** that people are dreaming about against the potential sales volume. Take the vette driveline in a f-body. the very most would be what 5-6 a year? And that is assuming 4 of those got mad cow disease.
As far as the Di heads. The total cost for that would have to run close to $10k after you bought the heads and fuel system. Are you willing to spend that kind of cash for what 40 HP?
As far as what I would like to see, valve covers on the shelf and another option for remote mounting the coils on a vette. Completely away from the valvecovers. Some of the pro-touring guys are mounting them low, around the oil pan.
JMHO people....
01-26-2011, 07:51 AM
#73
You're misinterpreting my responses.
Simply not true.
Regarding the flywheel, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. When we spend thousands of dollars engineering a clutch kit we intend to sell a clutch kit. We don't intent to sell one small part of it and include a how-to guide to to make the kit yourself.
Regarding the GM parts, we simply can't sell them at any less than list price. We're not a GM parts warehouse, we don't have the hook up prices. There are plenty of GM Parts warehouses and we don't need to begin to compete with them. We should be focusing our efforts on designing unique products.
We did handle a complicated project like that when we designed and manufactured the XV16. If somebody was footing the bill we could do it again with a V10.
We did handle a complicated project like that when we designed and manufactured the XV16. If somebody was footing the bill we could do it again with a V10.
01-26-2011, 08:03 AM
#74
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This thread has really went down hill.
I don't know how you can compare Katech to other shops. They spend millions in equipment and r&d to bring you the best possible products.
Let's compare 2 shops at camshaft design.
Shop 1-they begin with taking what they think will be a good cam design. They do engine simulation to get a basic design(oh yeah, some of this simulation software is $30,000 per year to lease) After engine simulation they go to valve train simulation or spintron work. After which they put one in a engine, usually after 2-3 cams in the engine dyno you are happy. Lots of money invested into 1 cam.
Shop 2- they pick a couple lobes out of a catalog, put it a car run it on the chassis dyno-done.
Shop 1- sells their cams for $500.00
Shop 2 -sells their cams for $385.00
is the shop 2 cam near as good for longevity of the valvetrain and optimal power-very, very doubtful unless they got lucky.
so how many cams does shop 1 have to sell to make of for the tens of thousands of dollars they spend to bring you that cam?
you can't put a price tag on that kind of research. Most don't have the ability to even do that kind of r&d and many of those who do, doesn't sell it. So you really should be appreciative that Katech will even let you buy parts from them that have that kind of r&d put into them. You have to remember, everything they learn goes into those products,whether it's from the track or dyno-like i said,how do you put a price tag on that experience?
I don't know how you can compare Katech to other shops. They spend millions in equipment and r&d to bring you the best possible products.
Let's compare 2 shops at camshaft design.
Shop 1-they begin with taking what they think will be a good cam design. They do engine simulation to get a basic design(oh yeah, some of this simulation software is $30,000 per year to lease) After engine simulation they go to valve train simulation or spintron work. After which they put one in a engine, usually after 2-3 cams in the engine dyno you are happy. Lots of money invested into 1 cam.
Shop 2- they pick a couple lobes out of a catalog, put it a car run it on the chassis dyno-done.
Shop 1- sells their cams for $500.00
Shop 2 -sells their cams for $385.00
is the shop 2 cam near as good for longevity of the valvetrain and optimal power-very, very doubtful unless they got lucky.
so how many cams does shop 1 have to sell to make of for the tens of thousands of dollars they spend to bring you that cam?
you can't put a price tag on that kind of research. Most don't have the ability to even do that kind of r&d and many of those who do, doesn't sell it. So you really should be appreciative that Katech will even let you buy parts from them that have that kind of r&d put into them. You have to remember, everything they learn goes into those products,whether it's from the track or dyno-like i said,how do you put a price tag on that experience?
01-26-2011, 08:24 AM
#75
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Well a v10 was just a thought. RHS is a cast engine. Nothing says it has to be billet. The crank and cam companies will develop for them. Head could be developed. i would argue that crank/cam development would be the most work.
I dont have a clue of the development cost because I dont develop engines. However thank you for pointing that out. LOL. I just wouldnt think that making relocation brackets, would be worth their time, and dosnt set them apart. I understand why you would want them, just dont think katech would be interested (ive been wrong before).
Im glad someone is doing road racing,because we need someone in that area for the americans.
I think some of us are thinking a little to narrow minded. Katech is not looking to go in the same direction as all the other builders. We need to look at it from a business perspective. Katech operates on a different philosophy, and I think that has gotten them where they are.
Maybe katech dosnt want to sell hot cams, and deal with all those customers for a $50 profit. So you jack the price up to discourage purchasing.
I guess what im saying is, if you dont get it, you dont get it.
No hard feelings, go luck to everyone in there builds/businesses
I dont have a clue of the development cost because I dont develop engines. However thank you for pointing that out. LOL. I just wouldnt think that making relocation brackets, would be worth their time, and dosnt set them apart. I understand why you would want them, just dont think katech would be interested (ive been wrong before).
Im glad someone is doing road racing,because we need someone in that area for the americans.
I think some of us are thinking a little to narrow minded. Katech is not looking to go in the same direction as all the other builders. We need to look at it from a business perspective. Katech operates on a different philosophy, and I think that has gotten them where they are.
Maybe katech dosnt want to sell hot cams, and deal with all those customers for a $50 profit. So you jack the price up to discourage purchasing.
I guess what im saying is, if you dont get it, you dont get it.
No hard feelings, go luck to everyone in there builds/businesses
01-26-2011, 08:58 AM
#76
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Ultimately the problem with this thread is you asked the wrong question to the wrong group of people. Most guys on this site are just working class stiffs that simply cant afford most of what Katek offers. Most of us are middle class guys with middle class income and we basically just had the equivolent of a Ferrari engineer ask the question "what would you like to see Ferrari produce next year?!"..... well, i dont know.... How about some **** I can afford?
The responses you are getting are a result of asking the completely wrong demographic. Dont ask the homeless guy what kind of sandwich he would like and when he asks for a budget ham and cheese only tell him all you can do is the prime rib and lobster.
If all you can produce is high dollar items then that is fine... but you should probibly retreat back to the corvette forum.
The responses you are getting are a result of asking the completely wrong demographic. Dont ask the homeless guy what kind of sandwich he would like and when he asks for a budget ham and cheese only tell him all you can do is the prime rib and lobster.
If all you can produce is high dollar items then that is fine... but you should probibly retreat back to the corvette forum.
01-26-2011, 10:05 AM
#77
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Ultimately the problem with this thread is you asked the wrong question to the wrong group of people. Most guys on this site are just working class stiffs that simply cant afford most of what Katek offers. Most of us are middle class guys with middle class income and we basically just had the equivolent of a Ferrari engineer ask the question "what would you like to see Ferrari produce next year?!"..... well, i dont know.... How about some **** I can afford?
The responses you are getting are a result of asking the completely wrong demographic. Dont ask the homeless guy what kind of sandwich he would like and when he asks for a budget ham and cheese only tell him all you can do is the prime rib and lobster.
If all you can produce is high dollar items then that is fine... but you should probibly retreat back to the corvette forum.
The responses you are getting are a result of asking the completely wrong demographic. Dont ask the homeless guy what kind of sandwich he would like and when he asks for a budget ham and cheese only tell him all you can do is the prime rib and lobster.
If all you can produce is high dollar items then that is fine... but you should probibly retreat back to the corvette forum.
01-26-2011, 11:14 AM
#80
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I would agree with your statement. But why such hostility for a company that has done nothing but help development of lsx engines. We all share the same passion for power and reliability, so why such hate for katech. Im middle class as well but I dont see any reason to hate or bash what they do.