More info on LS2 erl dry sleeved block?
10-16-2011, 05:16 PM
#21
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Louis, not to hijack, but what would your order of preference be with the following with aftermarket sleeves; gen 4 5.3, ls2, ls3, ls6, ls7. ive heard the gen 4 5.3 is the strongest. im only looking for 600rwhp
thanks
thanks
10-16-2011, 05:55 PM
#23
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You don't need to sleeve a block at the 600whp mark. Stock sleeves will work just fine. And Loius I agree however in my case, I already have an LS2 block to start with and after its sleeved there would be no difference between it and an LS7 block except for one would say 6.0 and the other 7.0 Ill be running an LS7 top end on the 441 stroker setup. In the end im saving about 1800$ and getting a stronger block as a result.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
10-16-2011, 05:59 PM
#24
You don't need to sleeve a block at the 600whp mark. Stock sleeves will work just fine. And Loius I agree however in my case, I already have an LS2 block to start with and after its sleeved there would be no difference between it and an LS7 block except for one would say 6.0 and the other 7.0 Ill be running an LS7 top end on the 441 stroker setup. In the end im saving about 1800$ and getting a stronger block as a result.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
Thats correct. the LS7 has nicer main caps, which are doweled, but thats about it. The sleeved 5.3 is popular now because they are so cheap. you can get a bombproof 5.3 with a bore of 4.125 for cheap.
Any Gen4 aluminum block is a good candidate, but LS2 and 5.3s are the most readily available.
10-16-2011, 06:54 PM
#26
We replied at the same time
Thats correct. the LS7 has nicer main caps, which are doweled, but thats about it. The sleeved 5.3 is popular now because they are so cheap. you can get a bombproof 5.3 with a bore of 4.125 for cheap.
Any Gen4 aluminum block is a good candidate, but LS2 and 5.3s are the most readily available.
Thats correct. the LS7 has nicer main caps, which are doweled, but thats about it. The sleeved 5.3 is popular now because they are so cheap. you can get a bombproof 5.3 with a bore of 4.125 for cheap.
Any Gen4 aluminum block is a good candidate, but LS2 and 5.3s are the most readily available.
Is that with the longer new Darton sleeves to handle a 4.125 crank also?
How much you talking it would cost sleeved with the new Darton sleeves?
.
10-16-2011, 06:57 PM
#27
You don't need to sleeve a block at the 600whp mark. Stock sleeves will work just fine. And Loius I agree however in my case, I already have an LS2 block to start with and after its sleeved there would be no difference between it and an LS7 block except for one would say 6.0 and the other 7.0 Ill be running an LS7 top end on the 441 stroker setup. In the end im saving about 1800$ and getting a stronger block as a result.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
Plus, I heard somewhere that the LS2 blocks have a little more meat in the blocks in some areas than the LS7s do.
And how will you make enough cubes with a stock block to make 600 RWHP...and still have enough gasket to spray anything on top of that?
Won't work.
.
10-16-2011, 07:03 PM
#28
If you could find a good core LS5.3 aluminum block, you are looking at 1550 for sleevework and 3/4/500$ for a block, plus shipping. All in, around 2000-2200. Supply your own block, and like I posted above- 1550+ ship to/from.
10-16-2011, 10:24 PM
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You don't need to sleeve a block at the 600whp mark. Stock sleeves will work just fine. And Loius I agree however in my case, I already have an LS2 block to start with and after its sleeved there would be no difference between it and an LS7 block except for one would say 6.0 and the other 7.0 Ill be running an LS7 top end on the 441 stroker setup. In the end im saving about 1800$ and getting a stronger block as a result.
10-16-2011, 10:34 PM
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Buy whatevers cheaper. I think the LS2 block is actually cheaper. To be honest, once the block is sleeved, the only difference in the block will be the number on the outside of it. They all end up being exactly the same.
10-16-2011, 11:03 PM
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Where did you read 300 shot or stock block? Im looking to run a 441ciSLEEVED block..which means its no longer stock(at all)It is more than enough to make 600whp on motor alone...with the right top end. Seth at ERL said it could safely handle over a 200 shot of nitrous though. And I see people spraying 2-300 on stock sleeves..so if these are much stronger I don't see why it would be an issue? I know I will be happy with the car on a 125-150 shot which it will be able to handle all day long.
10-17-2011, 06:19 PM
#35
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I used a new 5.3 core for my ERL build. As long as it is the 4th gen block you are golden. The 5.3's can be had the cheapest and they work great.
10-17-2011, 07:58 PM
#36
5.3: Gen IV The number on the front of the 5.3L blocks I have here is:
12571048.
The 5.3 and 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the factory blocks for either wet or dry sleeving. These blocks have solid main bearing bulkheads, as Louis pointed out. The LS7 block lacks the large fillet radius connecting the bulkhead to the outer block wall as found in all other block castings, even the early Gen III LS1 and LS6.
GM at one time offered an LS7 race block (I have one here) which also had solid main bearing bulkheads. These were pricey at somewhere around $4,500 as I recall. The truck blocks are a real bargain.
Regarding coolants. A dry sleeved block can run with standard coolants. I recommend Evans coolant for wet sleeved blocks, especially boosted engines which will see some detonation. Detonation causes water to cavitate which erodes the exterior surface of a wet liner.
Steve
12571048.
The 5.3 and 6L truck blocks are the strongest of the factory blocks for either wet or dry sleeving. These blocks have solid main bearing bulkheads, as Louis pointed out. The LS7 block lacks the large fillet radius connecting the bulkhead to the outer block wall as found in all other block castings, even the early Gen III LS1 and LS6.
GM at one time offered an LS7 race block (I have one here) which also had solid main bearing bulkheads. These were pricey at somewhere around $4,500 as I recall. The truck blocks are a real bargain.
Regarding coolants. A dry sleeved block can run with standard coolants. I recommend Evans coolant for wet sleeved blocks, especially boosted engines which will see some detonation. Detonation causes water to cavitate which erodes the exterior surface of a wet liner.
Steve
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
10-17-2011, 08:26 PM
#37
Where do you get your info? It lacks bay to bay breathing and a few other things that the Gen4 stuff has, like the head bolts shortened up for one.
As long as the rest of the engine is built to handle it with a good tune up, yes. It can handle it. Anything more than that, and I would look at LSX, or a smaller bore. Nitrous is hard on parts. If its a racecar? Meh, thats up to you. ATVracer has proven quite successful with nitrous, but Im not sure of his setup. I just know he is going fast with it, and knows his stuff.
If you could find a good core LS5.3 aluminum block, you are looking at 1550 for sleevework and 3/4/500$ for a block, plus shipping. All in, around 2000-2200. Supply your own block, and like I posted above- 1550+ ship to/from.
As long as the rest of the engine is built to handle it with a good tune up, yes. It can handle it. Anything more than that, and I would look at LSX, or a smaller bore. Nitrous is hard on parts. If its a racecar? Meh, thats up to you. ATVracer has proven quite successful with nitrous, but Im not sure of his setup. I just know he is going fast with it, and knows his stuff.
If you could find a good core LS5.3 aluminum block, you are looking at 1550 for sleevework and 3/4/500$ for a block, plus shipping. All in, around 2000-2200. Supply your own block, and like I posted above- 1550+ ship to/from.
That 5.3 idea....is that the long new Dartons that can accept and completely support the piston at BDC with a 4.125" stroke........? If so, yea, thats a relatively cheap route to building a 441ci (4.125 x 4.125) and then spray a 250 shot.
.
10-17-2011, 09:22 PM
#38
Darton LS sleeves Darton LS liners, both wet MID and dry Seal Tight are 5.800" long on the piston thrust sides and support the skirts fully at BDC unlike the factory LS7 sleeves.
They will handle strokes to 4.25" for racing use. I recommend sticking with a 4.125" stroke for long term street use to get a bit more skirt length on the pistons. I have done many dry and wet sleeved blocks built to 454" 4.185" bore, 4.125" stroke. I am working on a Darton dry sleeved block being built to 468" 4.185" x 4.25" for Tony Mamo for one of his test pieces.
For nitrous or boost, 4" is the recommended max. stroke. That stroke length allows sufficient piston compression height to get the rings far enough down from the top surface of the piston.
To avoid any confusion, ERL dry liners are not the same as the Darton Seal Tight dry liners.
Steve
They will handle strokes to 4.25" for racing use. I recommend sticking with a 4.125" stroke for long term street use to get a bit more skirt length on the pistons. I have done many dry and wet sleeved blocks built to 454" 4.185" bore, 4.125" stroke. I am working on a Darton dry sleeved block being built to 468" 4.185" x 4.25" for Tony Mamo for one of his test pieces.
For nitrous or boost, 4" is the recommended max. stroke. That stroke length allows sufficient piston compression height to get the rings far enough down from the top surface of the piston.
To avoid any confusion, ERL dry liners are not the same as the Darton Seal Tight dry liners.
Steve
I'm pretty sure IIRC Steve at "RED" emailed me awhile ago and said it was actually the strongest aluminum production LSx block.
That 5.3 idea....is that the long new Dartons that can accept and completely support the piston at BDC with a 4.125" stroke........? If so, yea, thats a relatively cheap route to building a 441ci (4.125 x 4.125) and then spray a 250 shot.
.
That 5.3 idea....is that the long new Dartons that can accept and completely support the piston at BDC with a 4.125" stroke........? If so, yea, thats a relatively cheap route to building a 441ci (4.125 x 4.125) and then spray a 250 shot.
.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
10-17-2011, 10:06 PM
#39
Darton LS liners, both wet MID and dry Seal Tight are 5.800" long on the piston thrust sides and support the skirts fully at BDC unlike the factory LS7 sleeves.
They will handle strokes to 4.25" for racing use. I recommend sticking with a 4.125" stroke for long term street use to get a bit more skirt length on the pistons. I have done many dry and wet sleeved blocks built to 454" 4.185" bore, 4.125" stroke. I am working on a Darton dry sleeved block being built to 468" 4.185" x 4.25" for Tony Mamo for one of his test pieces.
For nitrous or boost, 4" is the recommended max. stroke. That stroke length allows sufficient piston compression height to get the rings far enough down from the top surface of the piston.
To avoid any confusion, ERL dry liners are not the same as the Darton Seal Tight dry liners.
Steve
They will handle strokes to 4.25" for racing use. I recommend sticking with a 4.125" stroke for long term street use to get a bit more skirt length on the pistons. I have done many dry and wet sleeved blocks built to 454" 4.185" bore, 4.125" stroke. I am working on a Darton dry sleeved block being built to 468" 4.185" x 4.25" for Tony Mamo for one of his test pieces.
For nitrous or boost, 4" is the recommended max. stroke. That stroke length allows sufficient piston compression height to get the rings far enough down from the top surface of the piston.
To avoid any confusion, ERL dry liners are not the same as the Darton Seal Tight dry liners.
Steve
So I can use my 4.125" stroke rotating assembly and get new pistons to fit a 4.125" bore in the new sleeves to make a 441ci....then spray a 250 shot safely.
.
10-18-2011, 04:41 AM
#40
I used my stock ls2 block and went with wet sleeves. I was very happy with erl. They have a great staff. I have my 454 in a 05 Gto making 600 rwhp. Shawn and Seth at erl are both top notch guys to deal with.