Lifters - Johnson or Morel or ?
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
Lifters - Johnson or Morel or ? Building a new motor very soon. Contacted a builder and we will be working out some details in the near future.
I'll be doing a build thread once everything is confirmed.
At any rate, I'm thinking about some higher end lifters and am looking for feedback.
JOHNSON LINKBAR HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS 2116LSR
MOREL 5206 LS PRO SERIES HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS
What are the major differences between the 2 other than the $100 price? I've done some minimal research but details, specifically on the Johnsons, is a little bit vague.
Any help would be appreciated.
I'll be doing a build thread once everything is confirmed.
At any rate, I'm thinking about some higher end lifters and am looking for feedback.
JOHNSON LINKBAR HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS 2116LSR
MOREL 5206 LS PRO SERIES HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS
What are the major differences between the 2 other than the $100 price? I've done some minimal research but details, specifically on the Johnsons, is a little bit vague.
Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by FLYZNTN; Mar 27, 2014 at 06:39 AM.
I went with a set of Johnson non-linkbar lifters. Everyone I talked to (pro's) said they were great. There really isn't any information on them online. They seem to have stayed under the RADAR pretty well. I'll be posting a short review of them once I get them in the car and running. Should be in a couple weeks.
The Morels you listed are more because of the larger diameter wheel. Most lifters that I've seen with the .750" wheel are around that price range. It is a stronger setup that reduces side loading in the lifter bore.
The Morels you listed are more because of the larger diameter wheel. Most lifters that I've seen with the .750" wheel are around that price range. It is a stronger setup that reduces side loading in the lifter bore.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
Thanks guys. Does Johnson make a .750 inch wheel lifter? Just curious, I have no issues going with the Morel 5206 or 5274.
**** Nevermind, they do not. I found it on their site****
**** Nevermind, they do not. I found it on their site****
Last edited by FLYZNTN; Mar 27, 2014 at 11:31 AM.
At the Johnson website the following explanation regarding oversize rollers is given:
We do not use oversize rollers because it requires the body of the lifter to utilize a “fork style” roller pocket. With a fork style lifter body the loads that the lifter sees tends to flex the ears of the lifter over and over. This stress causes the ears to become work hardened and will often fracture over time. We shroud all of our rollers because it helps to distribute the loads that are being applied upon the lifter.
I currently run Morel 5206s, but this and other information at the Johnson website merit a look.
We do not use oversize rollers because it requires the body of the lifter to utilize a “fork style” roller pocket. With a fork style lifter body the loads that the lifter sees tends to flex the ears of the lifter over and over. This stress causes the ears to become work hardened and will often fracture over time. We shroud all of our rollers because it helps to distribute the loads that are being applied upon the lifter.
I currently run Morel 5206s, but this and other information at the Johnson website merit a look.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
At the Johnson website the following explanation regarding oversize rollers is given:
We do not use oversize rollers because it requires the body of the lifter to utilize a “fork style” roller pocket. With a fork style lifter body the loads that the lifter sees tends to flex the ears of the lifter over and over. This stress causes the ears to become work hardened and will often fracture over time. We shroud all of our rollers because it helps to distribute the loads that are being applied upon the lifter.
I currently run Morel 5206s, but this and other information at the Johnson website merit a look.
We do not use oversize rollers because it requires the body of the lifter to utilize a “fork style” roller pocket. With a fork style lifter body the loads that the lifter sees tends to flex the ears of the lifter over and over. This stress causes the ears to become work hardened and will often fracture over time. We shroud all of our rollers because it helps to distribute the loads that are being applied upon the lifter.
I currently run Morel 5206s, but this and other information at the Johnson website merit a look.
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 328
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge La
The quote here about the pressure is technically correct but the difference that .025” change in the radius is very small. If you calculate the difference in the two wheel sizes on our lobe that is 224 at .050” and .370” lobe lift, which is about as aggressive of a hydraulic lobe we would recommend using on this engine, the maximum pressure angle for the .700” wheel is 22.36168 degrees and the same lobe with a .750” wheel is 22.79817 degrees. It is measurable but hard to say it is significant. The pressure angle is only one of the factors to use when choosing the best lifter for your build. The smaller wheel diameter allows the lifter to have a full round body all the way to the bottom of the lifter which allows for more surface contact with the lifter bore below the oil band and much more support for the axle. Also the axle is swedged to prevent them from spreading. The open forks required with .750” can sometime spread out. The aluminum blocks are not as hard as the iron blocks so I think the extra surface area would give you better support. We sell both Johnson and Morel.
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Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
Have you ever seen this happen? I'm just curious if this is a common problem.
MOREL 5290 LS LINK BAR HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS
Anybody running these? The design is more like the Johnson design. It has a .700 wheel and the axle is swedged.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 328
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge La
Kip,
Have you ever seen this happen? I'm just curious if this is a common problem.
MOREL 5290 LS LINK BAR HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS
Anybody running these? The design is more like the Johnson design. It has a .700 wheel and the axle is swedged.
Have you ever seen this happen? I'm just curious if this is a common problem.
MOREL 5290 LS LINK BAR HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS
Anybody running these? The design is more like the Johnson design. It has a .700 wheel and the axle is swedged.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 328
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge La
The 5209 are fine but it depends on your combination. I asked our Morel sales person what is the MAX spring presser you would like to see on the 5209 / .700 wheel lifters? He said 130 on the seat 350 open. He said on the high end .750 wheel lifters 190 seat 400 open. I am sure there have been many users of these lifters that had more presses than these pressers I gave with out problems.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
Specs for Comp 26926 .675 lift spring I am currently running.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
Specs for Comp 26926 .675 lift spring I am currently running.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 328
Likes: 1
From: Baton Rouge La
Specs for Comp 26926 .675 lift spring I am currently running.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
Seat Load----------Open Load-----------Coil Bind----------Rate (Lbs./In.)
129 @ 1.835-------470 @ 1.160-----------1.100---------------505
Yikes. The open is brutal. 70 lbs over Morel's recommendation. I've got some things to think about.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
Right now they're bone stock LS3 - no trunion upgrade and stock lifters. I'll be doing the trunions and the lifters and pushrods when the new motor goes in on June 1.
I'm trying to decide what lifters and whether or not to keep the 26926 springs. I'm leaning towards the Morel's and keeping the 26926 springs. However, I am going to a set of PRC heads (with the new motor) and they already have a set of BTR .660 springs. I've got a couple months to make a decision with Martin Smallwood and Jonathin Atkins (Tick Performance) making the final decision.
Anyway, back to the rockers. When I did the cam and springs (stock LS3 heads) one of the techs at the shop (not Tick) recommended a set of Yella Terras. So I bought them and had them installed with the cam. Put the car on the Dyno and it made 650 rwhp but, to me, it sounded like something broke on the passenger side cylinder head (loud click). The guys at the shop didn't think it was anything. So, I took the car and headed home. Mile down the road the click stops but now the motor is clearly running rough. I limp it back to the shop and it turns out to be a broken rocker arm bolt. Put the stockers back in and it's been fine ever since.
I'm trying to decide what lifters and whether or not to keep the 26926 springs. I'm leaning towards the Morel's and keeping the 26926 springs. However, I am going to a set of PRC heads (with the new motor) and they already have a set of BTR .660 springs. I've got a couple months to make a decision with Martin Smallwood and Jonathin Atkins (Tick Performance) making the final decision.
Anyway, back to the rockers. When I did the cam and springs (stock LS3 heads) one of the techs at the shop (not Tick) recommended a set of Yella Terras. So I bought them and had them installed with the cam. Put the car on the Dyno and it made 650 rwhp but, to me, it sounded like something broke on the passenger side cylinder head (loud click). The guys at the shop didn't think it was anything. So, I took the car and headed home. Mile down the road the click stops but now the motor is clearly running rough. I limp it back to the shop and it turns out to be a broken rocker arm bolt. Put the stockers back in and it's been fine ever since.
Last edited by FLYZNTN; Mar 29, 2014 at 06:52 AM.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,032
Likes: 661
WHat did the shop say? I hope they refunded your money from the YTs. Did anyone suggest cutting open the oil filter to look for anything?
Right now they're bone stock LS3 - no trunion upgrade and stock lifters. I'll be doing the trunions and the lifters and pushrods when the new motor goes in on June 1.
I'm trying to decide what lifters and whether or not to keep the 26926 springs. I'm leaning towards the Morel's and keeping the 26926 springs. However, I am going to a set of PRC heads (with the new motor) and they already have a set of BTR .660 springs. I've got a couple months to make a decision with Martin Smallwood and Jonathin Atkins (Tick Performance) making the final decision.
Anyway, back to the rockers. When I did the cam and springs (stock LS3 heads) one of the techs at the shop (not Tick) recommended a set of Yella Terras. So I bought them and had them installed with the cam. Put the car on the Dyno and it made 650 rwhp but, to me, it sounded like something broke on the passenger side cylinder head (loud click). The guys at the shop didn't think it was anything. So, I took the car and headed home. Mile down the road the click stops but now the motor is clearly running rough. I limp it back to the shop and it turns out to be a broken rocker arm bolt. Put the stockers back in and it's been fine ever since.
I'm trying to decide what lifters and whether or not to keep the 26926 springs. I'm leaning towards the Morel's and keeping the 26926 springs. However, I am going to a set of PRC heads (with the new motor) and they already have a set of BTR .660 springs. I've got a couple months to make a decision with Martin Smallwood and Jonathin Atkins (Tick Performance) making the final decision.
Anyway, back to the rockers. When I did the cam and springs (stock LS3 heads) one of the techs at the shop (not Tick) recommended a set of Yella Terras. So I bought them and had them installed with the cam. Put the car on the Dyno and it made 650 rwhp but, to me, it sounded like something broke on the passenger side cylinder head (loud click). The guys at the shop didn't think it was anything. So, I took the car and headed home. Mile down the road the click stops but now the motor is clearly running rough. I limp it back to the shop and it turns out to be a broken rocker arm bolt. Put the stockers back in and it's been fine ever since.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 274
Likes: 1
From: Collierville, TN
As far as a refund, I called YT and they sent me a bran new rocker arm with new bolt\stud. I then sold them to another LS1 tech member for $150. I ended up eating $300.
This was about 18 months ago....
FWIW, I've had them do some additional work since then. I think they're good people..... **** happens.
Last edited by FLYZNTN; Mar 30, 2014 at 12:50 PM.