big hammer

Ls3 stuff is just misused and misunderstood

KW Baraka

iTrader: (7)

What would you consider an optimal range?

KW

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

That is a pretty general questions. There are a lot of variables. Feel free to PM me with a specific example.

Y2K-WS6

Speedtrigger:
Thanks for your reply!
After reading this thread again and seeing the comments about the "low maintenance" on this LLSR cam, I am now leaning in the direction of using the same LLSR cam as your combo. My goal is to get to very very low 10's (bad air) or high 9's NA with good air, then leave a little room for a small shot in the future.
My 408 has diamond pistons with -3cc valve reliefs, so I am thinking there should be plenty of capability to shave the heads down to get more compression. I would not have a problem running 109-110 octane race gas or e85, so what kind of compression should I shoot for with plenty of octane?
(I don't want to change pistons, so I suppose I will just need to install the cam/lifters/heads etc then check PTV, to see how much can be milled).
I will be getting the PTC stall for my TH 400, I suppose they will be the best ones to spec the stall speed.
I will be using the Victor Jr, with the 4bbl Throttle body, as it does clear my current setup minor clearancing, and I can retain the wipers. I assume there will be no power loss by using the EFI setup versus the carb setup you used?

Lastly, I have a couple of questions about the heads:
1. My combo already has TMS cnc'd GM LS3 heads... I don't think there was much material removed because when I had the intake off before, there was quite a lot of area untouched in the intake ports.
2. How much power would I be giving up if I was to just shave these cnc'd stock LS3 heads to increase the compression, versus upgrading to AFR260's, or the Dart-LS3 heads you used?
3. If I am going to buy heads, cam, intake anyhow, would the car ET better with a cathedral setup such as Mast Med Bores, or AFR245's or TFS235's?
Damn it, there is just so much to consider!

Thanks for your time !!

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Your goal of 9s is certainly obtainable. How much power you will need depends on your race weight.

If you mill your heads to 63 CCs and run a .041" thick head gasket, you can get to 12:1 with those pistons. It should take about .030" milled off the heads to get you to 63 CCs unless their CNC process opened up the combustion chambers. Some of my machine shops tell me that .030" is about as much as you can mill the heads before you start having intake fit problems.

It is hard to say how your current heads would compare to some of the better aftermarket offerings. I have not seen any back to back testing with your particular CNC program. In your position, I would probably see what I could do with the heads you already have before I spent money on other options. If it were mine and I was going to use a single plane or ram style intake, I would keep the rectangle port heads. If I were going to a factory LS3 or Fast long runner intake, I might use some big cathedral ports like the Trick Flow, Mast or AFR. One more option for the rectangle port heads is the new FAST Mid-Length runners. They are good for a 7500 RPM or so shift point.

The final camshaft specs will depend on how high you want to spin it. 7500-7800 RPM or so is a good practical limit to keep costs under control. Using as much lift as possible will help make more power. Keeping the lift at .700" or just below would allow you to run a spring kit that is about $400. If you bump up to .750" lift, the appropriate spring kit is a bit over $700.

For best N/A performance, an 8" converter that flashes to the 5500-6000 area would be best. If you want to run nitrous, you will need to stay with the 9.5" style converters.

BOLO

iTrader: (40)

Steven, I love reading your build because the results are impressive to say the least!
On another note, thank you for spec' ing me another cam for my combo. I can't wait to make some passes. Just have to wait a few more weeks for the 400 to be built.

NAVYBLUE210

Steve,
Hope you don't mind me asking a couple questions in your thread,
After all it is directly responsible for my decision to use a
Cam Motion LLSR for my build, and subsequently my recommendation
For 64 Post to get one as well, in fact the Exact Valve Events you
Specified.

So my question regarding my build.
Given 20/20 hindsight with my specs & Dyno curves/results along
With BigHammers curves/results (although rear wheel results).
Given that we have very similar Airflow (Heads & Intake),
Bore/Stroke and desired Peak operating range (6000-7500).
243/249 115+3 VS 239/253 112+3.

1 If I were to change lobes from .395/.375 to .405/.395
Increasing lift to ~.696"/.680" up from .680"/.645" gross with
My 1.72 ratio roller rockers. What valve Events (durations, LSA & Advance
Would you specify if I wanted to reduce my peak from
7100-7300 to 6900-7100,

2. And alternately increase to 7500 Peak with
Shift points 400-500 RPM past peaks.

Feel free to answer here or in my 690 FWHP Dyno Results Thread.

Thanks
Dan

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

That sounds like a few different scenarios Dan. Better email me all the details to Steven at CamMotion.com.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Steve, I found most of the information for an EAP Model at the Enginelabs article site.
Not sure about the electric Water Pump (electric in model) AND the Exhaust used for the bench dyno. (1.7/8" x 32" EAP spec)

The EAP Report :

Torque = 553 at 6000 RPM
Horsepower = 706 at 7500 RPM (699 at 7100 RPM)

I hope some here find this interesting ?

Lance

64post

iTrader: (5)

Steve, yes, thanks again for the help with all my questions and to Bob too at Cam Motion. Dan sent along the cam specs you recommended 251-263 111+4 and it's installed-at 107* can't
wait to get to get it running. I'm using Tony Mamo's light intake valves withe hopes of making power to 7500 or so.

Patron

Around 720 depending on how in depth & compression 64post.

Patron

Thanks again Speed! I guess I could show you guys what I call a street engine LOL. Just get the fork and spoon Ready.... time to EAT. It's old but still great. Vacuum pump and 800 Easy on pump gas. LMAO!

Just got bac..... from another road trip.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...&ref=bookmarks

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

6350 RPM torque peak would be one hard core street engine.

Patron

Ford has the GT350r.... this is my response with nothing special the same engine but not 416/418 rather 402's and 408's..005 thru .030 vs .065 overbore there is no difference. A Nice healthy stall would be needed non-lock up or for some lock up converter. But 550 @ 5k and 575 ft/lbs @ 6000 then revs to 7800. I'd be searching for people with a lite weight car or truck 3000lbs or lighter . Better said Stalking! Cost just to blue print a engine like this is around 2500 to 3500 just for assembly. Hell I know of 408 short blocks that cost 4k vs the assembly price LOL.

64post

iTrader: (5)

I estimate 740-750 flywheel with 13.3:1 on e85, a 105mm HiRam, 83lb injectors through a PG and 8.8, maybe 625rwhp.

Patron

Yea @ 13:5 compression sounds about right with the cam choice* port matching along with a nice vacuum pump only help. I couldn't get no more than 13.1 compression after having a set milled to 61cc's. *They still need to be set up for a solid roller. That's a old flat top for you even @ .005 out the hole and .042 gasket. Wish I could get more.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

I had also put this combo into EAP. In my version, EAP only missed the Torque Peak by 250 RPM. The program is interesting, but I find in general that some changes cause very disproportionate changes in power output. So, I do not put too much stock in the programs results or any programs like it that I have seen.

64post

iTrader: (5)

I'm using a JE 3cc dome area, (not valve relief volume) piston set, 420 grams ea. Scat Q-lite H beams, 570 grams ea, about 30 to 90 grams lighter than all the other common Hbeams out there. 1650gram bob weights is extremely light for 416 c.i. and 96 gram hollow stem LS3 sized valves, a little weight reduction where it counts maybe lets it reach the rpm needed.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Speed, I too agree with your "range" report. (off by 250 RPM)

I agree with your other observation AND to "add" detail to the engine specifications helps this report become more accurate.

There are MANY items that have a 100% accuracy.
The C.R.
The piston speed
The PV distance
The valve float RPM
The other math items
The BEST REPORT of an Engine Specification is SAVED by customers name.

Lance

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like a really well planned build. Got a thread going on it by any chance?