Cam change on LSA engine with a result of ....
04-05-2017, 09:29 AM
#2
I think that's a good number with just a cam. I would assume the blower at max internal rpm as well?
Typically I think the 640-650 range is about what folks see with a cam only overdriven LSA blower setup. Add meth and upper 600s become possible. To get over 700 requires head work.
Typically I think the 640-650 range is about what folks see with a cam only overdriven LSA blower setup. Add meth and upper 600s become possible. To get over 700 requires head work.
04-19-2017, 08:54 PM
#4
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Chris, what car, a ZL1? Because I have a 2nd gen V and its more like 4200-4300lbs but even the ZL1 is 4100lbs I believe. Also, no way a cam only LSA is layin down 680WHP on an accurate dyno. Though, the 137 trap sounds reasonable for 680whp. So, I would say the car could be putting down around 680whp but it's not on a cam only.
Besides, no one is going through the trouble of doing a cam swap and NOT doing upper and lower S/C pulleys as well. Many then do a flex fuel sensor and burn the corn juice too or even spray them. The LSA with the A6 will typically put down about 460whp stock on a dynojet. You also can't make anywhere near that power with stock injectors and it would be a bad idea to still have the stock innercooler and pump as well.
I am currently in the process of building a new forged shortblock and putting together a setup for my V that I estimate will put down 675-700 and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it actually hits 700 as I think it will be a little shy of it. Below is the list of everything I've got and doing to get it this 680whp! There are cheaper/quicker/easier ways to get there but I want a really solid build that will take a beating! I'm also estimating 16lbs of boost on a motor that will flow far better than stock to boot! Stock is 9psi and with a cam that would likely drop some, along with your running/effective compression since the intake valve will very likely close further after BDC than stock. Also the reason I'm bumping static compression a touch.
2011 A6 CTS-V
I’m now building a new forged short block as well.
Besides, no one is going through the trouble of doing a cam swap and NOT doing upper and lower S/C pulleys as well. Many then do a flex fuel sensor and burn the corn juice too or even spray them. The LSA with the A6 will typically put down about 460whp stock on a dynojet. You also can't make anywhere near that power with stock injectors and it would be a bad idea to still have the stock innercooler and pump as well.
I am currently in the process of building a new forged shortblock and putting together a setup for my V that I estimate will put down 675-700 and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it actually hits 700 as I think it will be a little shy of it. Below is the list of everything I've got and doing to get it this 680whp! There are cheaper/quicker/easier ways to get there but I want a really solid build that will take a beating! I'm also estimating 16lbs of boost on a motor that will flow far better than stock to boot! Stock is 9psi and with a cam that would likely drop some, along with your running/effective compression since the intake valve will very likely close further after BDC than stock. Also the reason I'm bumping static compression a touch.
2011 A6 CTS-V
- lt1z stage 2 cam Deluxe Package (Rods/Trunions/Springs/Timing Set)
- Johnson 2110 Lifters
- ARP LSA Head Studs
- LSA-LS9 Head Gaskets
- 2” SST Headers/Catless/3” Cross Pipe/Resonators
- Total Engine Airflow CNC Ported LSA Heads
- Jokerz Stage 2 (Welded) Ported Blower/Snout
- Ported LS3/LS7 90mm TB
- Airaid CAI w/big Green Filter
- ZL1 Lid - Milled/Reinforced Brick/-12an Converted
- ID850 Injectors
- Track Attack HX
- Varimax pump
- ATI Super Damper
- 2.45” Griptec upper S/C pulley
- 9.17” Lingenfelter Crank S/C pulley
- Lingenfelter Pulley relocation bracket
- New Ported LSA Oil Pump
- LS2 ‘Dog Bone’ timing chain tensioner
- Mighty Mouse Solutions ‘Wild’ Catch Can
- TR7IX plugs
- Dyno Tune on 93 Oct - Mike @ New Era Performance
I’m now building a new forged short block as well.
- New LSA Block
- Compstar Forged Rods (6.125”)
- Diamond -11cc Forged Pistons & Rings (4.065”)
- Durabond Cam bearings
- King XP Main & Rod Bearings
- Stock Forged LSA Crank
- ARP LS Main bearing Studs
- Every New Gasket Associated w/Engine
- 9.25:1 Static Compression Ratio (stock 9.1:1)
Last edited by aero_ub; 04-19-2017 at 09:04 PM.
04-20-2017, 04:56 PM
#5
Chris, what car, a ZL1? Because I have a 2nd gen V and its more like 4200-4300lbs but even the ZL1 is 4100lbs I believe. Also, no way a cam only LSA is layin down 680WHP on an accurate dyno. Though, the 137 trap sounds reasonable for 680whp. So, I would say the car could be putting down around 680whp but it's not on a cam only.
Besides, no one is going through the trouble of doing a cam swap and NOT doing upper and lower S/C pulleys as well. Many then do a flex fuel sensor and burn the corn juice too or even spray them. The LSA with the A6 will typically put down about 460whp stock on a dynojet. You also can't make anywhere near that power with stock injectors and it would be a bad idea to still have the stock innercooler and pump as well.
I am currently in the process of building a new forged shortblock and putting together a setup for my V that I estimate will put down 675-700 and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it actually hits 700 as I think it will be a little shy of it. Below is the list of everything I've got and doing to get it this 680whp! There are cheaper/quicker/easier ways to get there but I want a really solid build that will take a beating! I'm also estimating 16lbs of boost on a motor that will flow far better than stock to boot! Stock is 9psi and with a cam that would likely drop some, along with your running/effective compression since the intake valve will very likely close further after BDC than stock. Also the reason I'm bumping static compression a touch.
2011 A6 CTS-V
I’m now building a new forged short block as well.
Besides, no one is going through the trouble of doing a cam swap and NOT doing upper and lower S/C pulleys as well. Many then do a flex fuel sensor and burn the corn juice too or even spray them. The LSA with the A6 will typically put down about 460whp stock on a dynojet. You also can't make anywhere near that power with stock injectors and it would be a bad idea to still have the stock innercooler and pump as well.
I am currently in the process of building a new forged shortblock and putting together a setup for my V that I estimate will put down 675-700 and I'll be pleasantly surprised if it actually hits 700 as I think it will be a little shy of it. Below is the list of everything I've got and doing to get it this 680whp! There are cheaper/quicker/easier ways to get there but I want a really solid build that will take a beating! I'm also estimating 16lbs of boost on a motor that will flow far better than stock to boot! Stock is 9psi and with a cam that would likely drop some, along with your running/effective compression since the intake valve will very likely close further after BDC than stock. Also the reason I'm bumping static compression a touch.
2011 A6 CTS-V
- lt1z stage 2 cam Deluxe Package (Rods/Trunions/Springs/Timing Set)
- Johnson 2110 Lifters
- ARP LSA Head Studs
- LSA-LS9 Head Gaskets
- 2” SST Headers/Catless/3” Cross Pipe/Resonators
- Total Engine Airflow CNC Ported LSA Heads
- Jokerz Stage 2 (Welded) Ported Blower/Snout
- Ported LS3/LS7 90mm TB
- Airaid CAI w/big Green Filter
- ZL1 Lid - Milled/Reinforced Brick/-12an Converted
- ID850 Injectors
- Track Attack HX
- Varimax pump
- ATI Super Damper
- 2.45” Griptec upper S/C pulley
- 9.17” Lingenfelter Crank S/C pulley
- Lingenfelter Pulley relocation bracket
- New Ported LSA Oil Pump
- LS2 ‘Dog Bone’ timing chain tensioner
- Mighty Mouse Solutions ‘Wild’ Catch Can
- TR7IX plugs
- Dyno Tune on 93 Oct - Mike @ New Era Performance
I’m now building a new forged short block as well.
- New LSA Block
- Compstar Forged Rods (6.125”)
- Diamond -11cc Forged Pistons & Rings (4.065”)
- Durabond Cam bearings
- King XP Main & Rod Bearings
- Stock Forged LSA Crank
- ARP LS Main bearing Studs
- Every New Gasket Associated w/Engine
- 9.25:1 Static Compression Ratio (stock 9.1:1)
04-20-2017, 09:05 PM
#6
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Chris,
It seems you took this as somewhat of an attack? It certainly was not, I had no idea you sell anything and I'm not questioning you or whoever owns the car, I'm simply stating a physical fact. NO cam only swap on an LSA will net 680whp. Instead of simply giving some smart a$$ half sentence reply (as is so common in the internet), I tried to give some supporting info and reasoning!
You did ask "Is this in the ball park of what these should make with a cam only part change and tuning?" The answer is, unequivocally, no. In fact I would go so far as to assure you it is physically impossible and could certainly back that up with the physics behind it. I would start with the actual air mass flow and then fuel mass required to actually produce that amount of HP and it would be clear why an otherwise stock motor is physically incapable of supplying it...especially the stock injectors.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that a cam (yours or otherwise) would go a long way towards helping to achieve a goal of 680whp but simply doing nothing more than swapping the cam and tuning will 100% not come anywhere near 680whp. I would be interested in some of the specs for the cam? I personally chose a custom grind that is not too crazy but about .615 intake and .600 exhaust. You can't go that crazy on lift anyway since as you approach .3X the size of the intake valve diameter you run into a point of diminishing returns.
regardless of what the LSA is in, 680whp would conservatively be 800 flywheel HP. Are we really going to argue that a 'cam only' swap and tune will gain 244hp on ANY car in the world? OR that 52lb/hr (@58psi) injectors can come anywhere near the point of flowing enough fuel to support 800 flywheel hp??? There are multiple reason but that one alone is case closed based on some fairly simple physics. So, you DO have a reason to doubt what he tells you...physics.
But, since the trap speeds seem to indicate a significant power gain over stock, like I said, I'm not denying that the car may be putting down that much power. I would be willing to bet, if you do a little more digging, you may find that there is also an upper and lower S/C pulley swap (adding very significant increase in boost!), injectors and maybe E85 or some other supporting mods. I also stand by the statement that NO ONE is going to the trouble of changing a cam (and springs etc) and NOT changing the pulley! The vast majority have an upper pulley long before they get around doing a cam and lower pulley (which are typically done at the same time).
It seems you took this as somewhat of an attack? It certainly was not, I had no idea you sell anything and I'm not questioning you or whoever owns the car, I'm simply stating a physical fact. NO cam only swap on an LSA will net 680whp. Instead of simply giving some smart a$$ half sentence reply (as is so common in the internet), I tried to give some supporting info and reasoning!
You did ask "Is this in the ball park of what these should make with a cam only part change and tuning?" The answer is, unequivocally, no. In fact I would go so far as to assure you it is physically impossible and could certainly back that up with the physics behind it. I would start with the actual air mass flow and then fuel mass required to actually produce that amount of HP and it would be clear why an otherwise stock motor is physically incapable of supplying it...especially the stock injectors.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that a cam (yours or otherwise) would go a long way towards helping to achieve a goal of 680whp but simply doing nothing more than swapping the cam and tuning will 100% not come anywhere near 680whp. I would be interested in some of the specs for the cam? I personally chose a custom grind that is not too crazy but about .615 intake and .600 exhaust. You can't go that crazy on lift anyway since as you approach .3X the size of the intake valve diameter you run into a point of diminishing returns.
regardless of what the LSA is in, 680whp would conservatively be 800 flywheel HP. Are we really going to argue that a 'cam only' swap and tune will gain 244hp on ANY car in the world? OR that 52lb/hr (@58psi) injectors can come anywhere near the point of flowing enough fuel to support 800 flywheel hp??? There are multiple reason but that one alone is case closed based on some fairly simple physics. So, you DO have a reason to doubt what he tells you...physics.
But, since the trap speeds seem to indicate a significant power gain over stock, like I said, I'm not denying that the car may be putting down that much power. I would be willing to bet, if you do a little more digging, you may find that there is also an upper and lower S/C pulley swap (adding very significant increase in boost!), injectors and maybe E85 or some other supporting mods. I also stand by the statement that NO ONE is going to the trouble of changing a cam (and springs etc) and NOT changing the pulley! The vast majority have an upper pulley long before they get around doing a cam and lower pulley (which are typically done at the same time).
Last edited by aero_ub; 04-20-2017 at 10:11 PM.
04-21-2017, 08:56 AM
#7
Chris,
It seems you took this as somewhat of an attack? It certainly was not, I had no idea you sell anything and I'm not questioning you or whoever owns the car, I'm simply stating a physical fact. NO cam only swap on an LSA will net 680whp. Instead of simply giving some smart a$$ half sentence reply (as is so common in the internet), I tried to give some supporting info and reasoning!
You did ask "Is this in the ball park of what these should make with a cam only part change and tuning?" The answer is, unequivocally, no. In fact I would go so far as to assure you it is physically impossible and could certainly back that up with the physics behind it. I would start with the actual air mass flow and then fuel mass required to actually produce that amount of HP and it would be clear why an otherwise stock motor is physically incapable of supplying it...especially the stock injectors.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that a cam (yours or otherwise) would go a long way towards helping to achieve a goal of 680whp but simply doing nothing more than swapping the cam and tuning will 100% not come anywhere near 680whp. I would be interested in some of the specs for the cam? I personally chose a custom grind that is not too crazy but about .615 intake and .600 exhaust. You can't go that crazy on lift anyway since as you approach .3X the size of the intake valve diameter you run into a point of diminishing returns.
regardless of what the LSA is in, 680whp would conservatively be 800 flywheel HP. Are we really going to argue that a 'cam only' swap and tune will gain 244hp on ANY car in the world? OR that 52lb/hr (@58psi) injectors can come anywhere near the point of flowing enough fuel to support 800 flywheel hp??? There are multiple reason but that one alone is case closed based on some fairly simple physics. So, you DO have a reason to doubt what he tells you...physics.
But, since the trap speeds seem to indicate a significant power gain over stock, like I said, I'm not denying that the car may be putting down that much power. I would be willing to bet, if you do a little more digging, you may find that there is also an upper and lower S/C pulley swap (adding very significant increase in boost!), injectors and maybe E85 or some other supporting mods. I also stand by the statement that NO ONE is going to the trouble of changing a cam (and springs etc) and NOT changing the pulley! The vast majority have an upper pulley long before they get around doing a cam and lower pulley (which are typically done at the same time).
It seems you took this as somewhat of an attack? It certainly was not, I had no idea you sell anything and I'm not questioning you or whoever owns the car, I'm simply stating a physical fact. NO cam only swap on an LSA will net 680whp. Instead of simply giving some smart a$$ half sentence reply (as is so common in the internet), I tried to give some supporting info and reasoning!
You did ask "Is this in the ball park of what these should make with a cam only part change and tuning?" The answer is, unequivocally, no. In fact I would go so far as to assure you it is physically impossible and could certainly back that up with the physics behind it. I would start with the actual air mass flow and then fuel mass required to actually produce that amount of HP and it would be clear why an otherwise stock motor is physically incapable of supplying it...especially the stock injectors.
I wouldn't doubt for a second that a cam (yours or otherwise) would go a long way towards helping to achieve a goal of 680whp but simply doing nothing more than swapping the cam and tuning will 100% not come anywhere near 680whp. I would be interested in some of the specs for the cam? I personally chose a custom grind that is not too crazy but about .615 intake and .600 exhaust. You can't go that crazy on lift anyway since as you approach .3X the size of the intake valve diameter you run into a point of diminishing returns.
regardless of what the LSA is in, 680whp would conservatively be 800 flywheel HP. Are we really going to argue that a 'cam only' swap and tune will gain 244hp on ANY car in the world? OR that 52lb/hr (@58psi) injectors can come anywhere near the point of flowing enough fuel to support 800 flywheel hp??? There are multiple reason but that one alone is case closed based on some fairly simple physics. So, you DO have a reason to doubt what he tells you...physics.
But, since the trap speeds seem to indicate a significant power gain over stock, like I said, I'm not denying that the car may be putting down that much power. I would be willing to bet, if you do a little more digging, you may find that there is also an upper and lower S/C pulley swap (adding very significant increase in boost!), injectors and maybe E85 or some other supporting mods. I also stand by the statement that NO ONE is going to the trouble of changing a cam (and springs etc) and NOT changing the pulley! The vast majority have an upper pulley long before they get around doing a cam and lower pulley (which are typically done at the same time).
I've had cam swaps in NA engines make a difference of a 146HP with cam swap. You add boost and its a whole new world. I'm not good at marketing myself so in the LS world I am a nobody and in someways that is a good thing. When it comes to camshafts no matter what it is, I've got a good reputation on what to put in these air compressors.
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04-24-2017, 08:25 PM
#9
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And injectors and if they're smart they'll do some cooling mods to help keep the IAT2's down! By the way, the stock LSA injectors are typically running 100% duty cycle, at sea level, by the time you get to about 560whp. Even that would not be very smart though. This makes a little more sense now though.
Do you have some specs on the cam?
If he's trapping 137 then he's definitely making some power! If anything, the ET is fairly high for that mph and he's probably in need of a tire upgrade! I'll bet the 60ft times are not great with that ET and mph. There's a ton of torque early with the LSA! If it's 3900lbs and you could hook it hard enough, I'll bet that could be pretty close to 9's.
Do you have some specs on the cam?
If he's trapping 137 then he's definitely making some power! If anything, the ET is fairly high for that mph and he's probably in need of a tire upgrade! I'll bet the 60ft times are not great with that ET and mph. There's a ton of torque early with the LSA! If it's 3900lbs and you could hook it hard enough, I'll bet that could be pretty close to 9's.
Last edited by aero_ub; 04-24-2017 at 08:34 PM.
04-25-2017, 09:53 AM
#10
And injectors and if they're smart they'll do some cooling mods to help keep the IAT2's down! By the way, the stock LSA injectors are typically running 100% duty cycle, at sea level, by the time you get to about 560whp. Even that would not be very smart though. This makes a little more sense now though.
Do you have some specs on the cam?
If he's trapping 137 then he's definitely making some power! If anything, the ET is fairly high for that mph and he's probably in need of a tire upgrade! I'll bet the 60ft times are not great with that ET and mph. There's a ton of torque early with the LSA! If it's 3900lbs and you could hook it hard enough, I'll bet that could be pretty close to 9's.
Do you have some specs on the cam?
If he's trapping 137 then he's definitely making some power! If anything, the ET is fairly high for that mph and he's probably in need of a tire upgrade! I'll bet the 60ft times are not great with that ET and mph. There's a ton of torque early with the LSA! If it's 3900lbs and you could hook it hard enough, I'll bet that could be pretty close to 9's.
Customer's customer got 1 pass at track in Western Australia and then was run off as the car had no cage. He drove it there so I "ASSUME" some type of street tire on the car.
04-28-2017, 11:08 AM
#11
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Impressive! If possible I'd like to see the dyno. Area under the curve must be nice.
I think "cam only" was a general term, not literal.
Obviously supporting mods are needed but the cam is the only internal upgrade. No headwork, or forged short block. Plenty of guys on the cts forums making similar numbers.
I personally am aiming to be in the same ballpark. Lt1z stage 3 cam Headgames ported blower, headers, exhaust, ported 90mm and intake. E85 will put me over 700whp.
I think "cam only" was a general term, not literal.
Obviously supporting mods are needed but the cam is the only internal upgrade. No headwork, or forged short block. Plenty of guys on the cts forums making similar numbers.
I personally am aiming to be in the same ballpark. Lt1z stage 3 cam Headgames ported blower, headers, exhaust, ported 90mm and intake. E85 will put me over 700whp.
05-03-2017, 08:28 AM
#13
Staging Lane
Wow, that's a pretty mild cam to make that much power, nice work. Lower lift than a BTR stage1. Did you happen to see a chart? Curious on the torque curve.
