Trick Flow 255s. Which cam should I use?
Trick Flow 255s. Which cam should I use? I have an LS3 with stock heads swapped into my 01 Z28 and I'm looking at going with the Trick Flow 255s. I'm trying to decide between 2 cams and wondered if anyone had any suggestions or had some experience with these heads. The 2 cams I'm looking at are the Tick Performance street heat stage 2 229/244 .618"/.610" LSA 112+4 or the Cam Motion Titan King 232/242 .621"/.604" LSA 113+3.5. If I'm not mistaken isn't the stage 2 Tick LS3 cam the same as the BTR stage 3? Any info or experience with these cams would be greatly appreciated. If Martin or Brian Tooley see this and have any advice or Kip of Cam Motion if you guys have any suggestions feel free to let me have it lol
Well, what's the E/I flow of those heads? Their chart shows about 69% but that's flowed with a pipe that pumps up the exhaust numbers. Assuming they are 20cfm lower on the exhaust side, the E/I ratio is 64% @ .600... which means ideally you'd want 16-degree split. If it's closer to 69% then a 9 degree split would work. And that's just the starting numbers.
What headers? What exhaust? What intake manifold?
Assuming stock LS3 intake and 1-7/8" headers into some kind of true duals, I would do a cam like this:
230/246 .637/.604 113.5+3.5. So that's in the neighborhood of the Tick Cam (looked after I set the valve events).
But I would almost want to do an LLR with those heads. Grab some Morel 5452 solid roller lifters and some T&D Shaft rockers with PAC1208X springs. And then run this cam:
Cam Motion LLR 236/252 .700/.680 113.5+3.5 LSA-010
The .010" of lash will bring the lift numbers down a bit and reduce duration by about 6 degrees. So cold, it'll act bigger. But as the car warms up, it'll end up driving pretty nice with 11 degrees of overlap.
That'd be a sweet combo.
If you went with a FAST with the shorter runners, I'd change the cam to the following:
234/250 .637/.604 115+4 Hyd or 240/256 .700/.680 115+4 LLR-010.
What headers? What exhaust? What intake manifold?
Assuming stock LS3 intake and 1-7/8" headers into some kind of true duals, I would do a cam like this:
230/246 .637/.604 113.5+3.5. So that's in the neighborhood of the Tick Cam (looked after I set the valve events).
But I would almost want to do an LLR with those heads. Grab some Morel 5452 solid roller lifters and some T&D Shaft rockers with PAC1208X springs. And then run this cam:
Cam Motion LLR 236/252 .700/.680 113.5+3.5 LSA-010
The .010" of lash will bring the lift numbers down a bit and reduce duration by about 6 degrees. So cold, it'll act bigger. But as the car warms up, it'll end up driving pretty nice with 11 degrees of overlap.
That'd be a sweet combo.
If you went with a FAST with the shorter runners, I'd change the cam to the following:
234/250 .637/.604 115+4 Hyd or 240/256 .700/.680 115+4 LLR-010.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,845
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From: Coast of San Mateo County Between Pacifica & HMB
I used TFS LS3 Heads (MAMOFIED) on my build, they are good
Heads out of the box with a much better E/I ratio then the
Stock LS3 Heads. Of the two cams listed I would go with the
Cam Motion Cam. I believe +8-10* negative split is the sweet
Spot for those heads vs the 12-16* often seen with the
Stockers. In fact I would suggest looking hard at the
LS3 Stage 3, 226/234, or the Titan 3 LS3, 227/237,
Especially if it is less then a 80/20 Strip/Street application.
My .02
Good Luck & post results.
Heads out of the box with a much better E/I ratio then the
Stock LS3 Heads. Of the two cams listed I would go with the
Cam Motion Cam. I believe +8-10* negative split is the sweet
Spot for those heads vs the 12-16* often seen with the
Stockers. In fact I would suggest looking hard at the
LS3 Stage 3, 226/234, or the Titan 3 LS3, 227/237,
Especially if it is less then a 80/20 Strip/Street application.
My .02
Good Luck & post results.
The TFS heads out of the box or from TEA aren't any better E/I than stock... just all the numbers are pumped up. Going to an 8-10 degree split isn't going to help much.
But staying down around 230 intake duration or less would be my suggestion with whatever you do (hydraulic).
I would definitely help out the exhaust though with an earlier EVO. If you run a 2" header, you can probably get away with a 12-degree split.
But then again, I like a 12-degree split on a cathedral port with a better E/I ratio to begin with.
I like the earliest EVO I can get. It flattens the torque curve out and carries power well past peak. Yeah, it may not make as much off-idle torque or as much peak torque, but it makes a broader torque curve that doesn't die off uptop.
But staying down around 230 intake duration or less would be my suggestion with whatever you do (hydraulic).
I would definitely help out the exhaust though with an earlier EVO. If you run a 2" header, you can probably get away with a 12-degree split.
But then again, I like a 12-degree split on a cathedral port with a better E/I ratio to begin with.
I like the earliest EVO I can get. It flattens the torque curve out and carries power well past peak. Yeah, it may not make as much off-idle torque or as much peak torque, but it makes a broader torque curve that doesn't die off uptop.
I'm running the stock LS3 intake. It flows pretty good for a factory piece and arh 1 7/8 headers. I'm also considering running a set of ported stock LS3 heads since they already flow so well
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What's your general HP/TQ goals?
What's the projected use for the car?
What other mods were done to the car (exhaust/gears/etc)?
If trans is a 4L60E, what torque converter are you going with?
KW
What's the projected use for the car?
What other mods were done to the car (exhaust/gears/etc)?
If trans is a 4L60E, what torque converter are you going with?
KW
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10 Second Club
Joined: May 2009
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From: over dere
Ls3 intake flows good for the factory heads but not for really good aftermarket ls3's like TFS or mast
10 Second Club
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 227
From: over dere
I have an LS3 with stock heads swapped into my 01 Z28 and I'm looking at going with the Trick Flow 255s. I'm trying to decide between 2 cams and wondered if anyone had any suggestions or had some experience with these heads. The 2 cams I'm looking at are the Tick Performance street heat stage 2 229/244 .618"/.610" LSA 112+4 or the Cam Motion Titan King 232/242 .621"/.604" LSA 113+3.5. If I'm not mistaken isn't the stage 2 Tick LS3 cam the same as the BTR stage 3? Any info or experience with these cams would be greatly appreciated. If Martin or Brian Tooley see this and have any advice or Kip of Cam Motion if you guys have any suggestions feel free to let me have it lol
My suggestion now that you spend money on the best heads is to get the best cam to work work for both those heads and the combination of supporting parts you have or will have.
What I would do is to have a cam spec to your application only cost you 40. and will do what you want considering shift points transmission type intake throttle body gears weight power goals and purpose.
The cam is the brain of the engine why use a common brain for a custom purpose.
https://www.guerragroup.com/camshaft-help
I appreciate all the help and info guys. The way my budget is looking I'm going to go with a set of ported stock heads for now since I will still be using the stock intake as well. Car will have arh 1 7/8 headers and gmmg catback and yank 3600ss stall. I seen a comparison a while back of hot rod magazine comparing different ported stock heads and the Scoggin Dickys looked to be the winners. Looks like im gonna be going with those or PRCs
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: Central Cal.
Does Scoggin-Dickey still port LS3 heads? Last time I checked their website
I only found the GM-ported heads. I had sort of a hard time navigating the site I must admit, so they still might be doing it...
I only found the GM-ported heads. I had sort of a hard time navigating the site I must admit, so they still might be doing it...
I couldn't find them either on their own site. WS6 store still has them listed on theirs though
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,303
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From: Central Cal.
Old stock AKA leftovers? They might have figured there was so little difference between theirs and GM's why bother doing it. Though I had read in a comparison that theirs flowed better than GM's... so ???
there was an article in hot tod magazine a few years back comparing either 6 or 8 ported heads can't remember for sure but the Scoggins made more power than the GM ones. PRC didn't get their heads to them on time so I'm curious to how well theirs compares
I would be glad to help.
Shoot me an email or give me a call.
Martin@smallwoodracedevelopment.com
864-723-2892
Since I designed several of the cams being discussed, and have made well over 500rwhp several times with SBE LS3's and these heads I think I can get you what you're after.
I have had customers make 515-520rwhp/450-460rwtq with these heads and a 232/250 .629/.612 112.5+3.5.
What's funny is the TEA TFS 255's actually flow LESS air from .200-.300 than a TEA TFS 245. At .100 the 2.165" valve 255's only flow 2 cfm more than the 2.100" valve TEA TFS 245's. Because the flow is nearly identical at .100, and LESS from .200-.300 the TEA TFS 255's will actually want the same OR MORE overlap @.050 than a similar sized cathedral port head.
Almost always a larger valve head will flow more air from .100-.300 than a smaller valve head. Note I said 'almost' always. At low lift the valve is the restriction, not the port. Since the valve is what is in the way at low lift, the more area you create at low lift (by making the valve bigger) the more flow you get due to less restriction. At higher lifts past .25 L/D the MCSA of the port becomes the restriction.
So the more a port flows a low lift the less overlap it needs and vice versa.
Shoot me an email or give me a call.
Martin@smallwoodracedevelopment.com
864-723-2892
Since I designed several of the cams being discussed, and have made well over 500rwhp several times with SBE LS3's and these heads I think I can get you what you're after.
I have had customers make 515-520rwhp/450-460rwtq with these heads and a 232/250 .629/.612 112.5+3.5.
What's funny is the TEA TFS 255's actually flow LESS air from .200-.300 than a TEA TFS 245. At .100 the 2.165" valve 255's only flow 2 cfm more than the 2.100" valve TEA TFS 245's. Because the flow is nearly identical at .100, and LESS from .200-.300 the TEA TFS 255's will actually want the same OR MORE overlap @.050 than a similar sized cathedral port head.
Almost always a larger valve head will flow more air from .100-.300 than a smaller valve head. Note I said 'almost' always. At low lift the valve is the restriction, not the port. Since the valve is what is in the way at low lift, the more area you create at low lift (by making the valve bigger) the more flow you get due to less restriction. At higher lifts past .25 L/D the MCSA of the port becomes the restriction.
So the more a port flows a low lift the less overlap it needs and vice versa.
I would be glad to help.
Shoot me an email or give me a call.
Martin@smallwoodracedevelopment.com
864-723-2892
Since I designed several of the cams being discussed, and have made well over 500rwhp several times with SBE LS3's and these heads I think I can get you what you're after.
I have had customers make 515-520rwhp/450-460rwtq with these heads and a 232/250 .629/.612 112.5+3.5.
What's funny is the TEA TFS 255's actually flow LESS air from .200-.300 than a TEA TFS 245. At .100 the 2.165" valve 255's only flow 2 cfm more than the 2.100" valve TEA TFS 245's. Because the flow is nearly identical at .100, and LESS from .200-.300 the TEA TFS 255's will actually want the same OR MORE overlap @.050 than a similar sized cathedral port head.
Almost always a larger valve head will flow more air from .100-.300 than a smaller valve head. Note I said 'almost' always. At low lift the valve is the restriction, not the port. Since the valve is what is in the way at low lift, the more area you create at low lift (by making the valve bigger) the more flow you get due to less restriction. At higher lifts past .25 L/D the MCSA of the port becomes the restriction.
So the more a port flows a low lift the less overlap it needs and vice versa.
Shoot me an email or give me a call.
Martin@smallwoodracedevelopment.com
864-723-2892
Since I designed several of the cams being discussed, and have made well over 500rwhp several times with SBE LS3's and these heads I think I can get you what you're after.
I have had customers make 515-520rwhp/450-460rwtq with these heads and a 232/250 .629/.612 112.5+3.5.
What's funny is the TEA TFS 255's actually flow LESS air from .200-.300 than a TEA TFS 245. At .100 the 2.165" valve 255's only flow 2 cfm more than the 2.100" valve TEA TFS 245's. Because the flow is nearly identical at .100, and LESS from .200-.300 the TEA TFS 255's will actually want the same OR MORE overlap @.050 than a similar sized cathedral port head.
Almost always a larger valve head will flow more air from .100-.300 than a smaller valve head. Note I said 'almost' always. At low lift the valve is the restriction, not the port. Since the valve is what is in the way at low lift, the more area you create at low lift (by making the valve bigger) the more flow you get due to less restriction. At higher lifts past .25 L/D the MCSA of the port becomes the restriction.
So the more a port flows a low lift the less overlap it needs and vice versa.