MIKE93SVT

iTrader: (6)

Gents,

ready to upgrade my current setup and would appreciate some knowledgeable advice. basic weekend street car that gets beat on regularly

Currently running:
gen III LQ4 stock bottom end
Tick cam (mild)
LS3 heads (not milled) and intake
supporting parts like oil pump, springs, trunion, etc.
was originally setting up for a LSA blower but decided to stay n/a

Car is a 65 Nova
4L70E trans with minor upgrades
4k stall
3.73 gear
Holley Dominator
just under 3,200lbs

the goal is to raise compression, higher rpm, and go with a more aggressive cam to maximize the N/A potential on pump gas (92 octane w/ 10% ethanol, will add torco for max effort tune). hit with a 150 shot occasionally.

a friend gave me a gen iv rotating assembly from an LY6. I plan to use the gen iv crank and rods with new bearings.

I'm looking at these pistons from LJMS to use with the stock rods:

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here are my questions and I'm open to any other advice you have

1: what is a safe rpm limit with the gen iv rods?

2: who to hit up for a cam, OTS or custom?

3: what am I missing or should do different?

thanks
Mike

Patron

1. Rods need replacing or rod bolts ..ARP
2. Pistons need replacing or should be upgraded
3. Heads should/ could be milled to get a bump in compression
4. Custom cam & springs: Cam Motion, Mike Jones cam,
4. Melling or Shumann oil pump

4K Trans stall maybe used if you get the correct cam.

NAVYBLUE210

AFR LS3 Heads, FAST Intake W/ Mid-Length Runners, LLSR From Cam Motion.
Not the most economical set up, but 60-80 More HP & add 1000+ RPM
To your existing range,
if your engine's Bottom end is ready.

Engine compartment looks awesome BTW!

Tuskyz28

Nice car with lots of potential!

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

You dont need expensive forged pistons for that.

Want to increase CR? Bore it to a 4.030 like you want and use our hd pistons OR we even have em in .040 over also. They are hyper eutectic flat top no valve reliefs with a coated skirt and has a hard anodized top and first ring land.
We sell them with a steel moly top and napier 2nd with std tension oil ring.
The set is $300 shipped.

The ls2 rods are fine and the rod bolts are just as fine also.

We can get you a complete cam kit in either a shelf grind or custom. We have ls7 lifters also for a great price and rod and main bearings also from King, ACL, Clevite to get you fixed up!!

Other than that your build is on par.
We have all the extra parts for the best prices on tech or vs jegs, summit, etc. We are your one stop shop.

If you want more info please feel free to email
Rpmspeedtech@gmail.com

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

He is planning on spraying nitrous. I do not recommend you heavily fly-cut a brittle hypereutectic pistons and then spray them with nitrous. When you fly-cut the stock type pistons they get very thin above the ring lands. Not only is this area brittle, but it has trouble handling the heat of nitrous. If the tune is not perfect and/or conservative, this piston will either melt or break in this area.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Who says he has to fly cut? I didnt recommend that, but hyper e arent very brittle. They take alot of boost stock on how many Hendrix Motorsports Callaway 5th Gens? or the same on C6s. The list goes on. Not to mention all the jy 4.8/5.3 builds running big boost on sbe's. Nitrous as well. Normal issues that bust ring lands are due to wrong/stock end gap on rings or tune issues. A 150 shot is not big by any means. Esp for only occassional use. If the tune isnt good then even a forged piston, rod, or bearing can be damaged.
Plus the pistons we use have a slightly reduced ch to increase ptv clearance and have less issues there. The hard anodizing reinforces the top all the way past the 1st ring land as well.

Using a higher quality non ethanol fuel would be money better spent for his build than forged vs hd hyper e.

NAVYBLUE210

The most "Chillest" Post I have ever seen you make!

That's a compliment by the way.

Just "Trippin"

Patron

So he would still need to buy pistons, because the compression being low and more than not, Not having to mill so much. Also if anyone has come this far may as we put better rod bolts while doing surgery. A decent set of forged piston cost around what starting 500 to 600 bucks. Build once buy once.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Not all machine shops are comfortable with doing that. You cannot just install arp rod bolts and be done. They arent cheap insurance at his level because the stock bolts work just fine. If it were a 98 ls1 then they would warrant replacing, but otherwise, no issue.

Patron

The reason I say rod bolts is that my H-beams rods are rated to 750 with, what came with it. Yet if I go to a ARP 2000 bolt that increases to 1100 ARP L19 bolts rating is 1400. Cheap insurance even if using factory rods. I read of guys not wanting to re size rod bolts and balance them also cam interference on some when dealing with strokers. I'm not saying he can't get away with it but how many till .. it doesn't go as planned. Factory parts have a Shorter thresh hold. We always typically want more.

I get where your coming from.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Any aftermarket ls rod uses ARP. They are a different size also not m9 like factory. They are at least 3/8.
You dont use std ls rods for stroker engines. The rod length is wrong but also the pin bore isnt right. I mean you COULD if you needed to gain an extra .025 clearance but still the pin bore is wrong.
But he isnt building a stroker engine.
The only reason to look at arp rod bolts for a stock rod would honestly be high rpm. The rod with stretch and will want to stretch the bolt as well.
How many ls2/3 engines make 600+ on boost with stock bottom ends?
Money better spent somewhere else.
They use the same rod bolt in the HD LSA rods as in the floating pin "ls2" rod also.

MIKE93SVT

iTrader: (6)

I appreciate the comments guys.

couple things to follow up:

I'm not buying new rods or rod bolts. the car would just get a 408 if that was happening. the only reason to run the gen iv rods is the free upgrade from my current gen iii which I don't spin above 6300 (cautious, yes)

the stock LS3 heads are staying on the engine. will get ported down the road. same with the stock LS3 intake

Thanks for the advise WS6 Store but I'm not intersted in spending the money to balance the rotating assembly with hypers, and potentially being forced to flycut them when achieving 11:1 compression

These wiseco's are what I'm looking at. link didn't work from LJMS since he's not a sponsor

Wiseco Forged Flat Top Pistons for 4.030" Bore, Stock 3.622" Stroke, 3cc valve reliefs, includes file fit GFX rings and .945" diameter pins, 1.331" compression height for 6.098" stock length rods.


Whoever specs the cam is who I'll listen to about how much to mill the heads, what head gasket thickness to run, etc


Leaning towards Cam Motion. Will shoot an email and post up down the road what comes of the project

thanks
Mike

MIKE93SVT

iTrader: (6)

also thanks for the compliments on the car. it's a fun ride

Mike

Patron

I know using factory rods and strokers cranks****was talking about some aftermarket rod bolts and cam interference. As I stated yes it will work with the way your going about it. ? Is how long as we always want more and we are dealing with Factory parts. That's all I'm saying we all know of Factory builds taking FI or nos. We also know of the same builds doing not so Worthy things in asking for to much. Key word Factory. Yes it will work and cheaper WS6.


Oh see you looked @ pistons that would help everything compression also. I know rods usually hold just me I'm cautious.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Those pistons are made for a 9.220 deck so assume youll need to check deck height at least if not also mill.

You're close to building a std ls3. If its easier to look at it like that.

Those pistons i recommended would not need any fly cutting even for a fairly aggressive cam.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

For some reason I thought he was planning on milling the heads to raise the compression. Looking back at his original post, I do not see any reference to milling. So, I am not sure where I got that.

As for hypereutectic pistons, they are certainly an improvement of an old school type cast piston, but they are certainly much more brittle than your standard 2618 alloy forged piston. The typical hypereutectic alloy's big advantage is dimensional stability to allow for tight tolerance. However, with that dimensional stability, come the brittleness that I refer to.

We all know what stock LS pistons are capable of in regards to boost and nitrous. This is surely a testament to their strength. However, this does not mean they are equal to forged in strength. And, specifically what I was referring to was the reduction in their resistance to heat and detonation once they are fly-cut. They become very thin above the ring-lands. In this area, the strength difference between forged and hypereutectic becomes a problem.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

Everyone jumps to 2618 and passes right over 4032 also. In this case the 4032 would be perfect.
I have had zero issue cutting a few gm stock pistons in new short blocks for customers running na, nitrous, or a small amount of boost. The cams were pretty aggressive hence the need.
The hyper e arent glass. And they can have a thicker center thickness than a forged piston by a good amount which can make up for the difference in material.
Always more than one way to get to the finished product.
I wouldnt recommend them over 200hp of nitrous or 10lbs of boost if flycut, but otherwise id have zero issue. Most of the time the flycuts are much smaller than what is machined into a piston, so the grooves are not as deep and keeps cr up.
Adding rec port heads on a 4 inch bore and flycutting i shy away from, but adding some material like a 4.030 or larger would be fine as well.

speedtigger

iTrader: (16)

Reid Sanders from Venom Racing Engines told me that he has successfully sprayed fly-cut OEM pistons a moderate amount. So, it can be done, but a lot more people have told me sad stories and showed me killed pistons. I have personally sprayed OEM pistons with NO flycutting up to and slightly more than a 200 shot for years and countless bottles without failures. I could not in good conscious recommend spraying fly-cut cast pistons to another enthusiast, but if they want to go for it. It is their chance to take.

tech@WS6store

iTrader: (2)

More often than not the reason for the failure is a lifted ring land from not filing the ring gap larger. The while idea of fly cutting is keeping the bottom end together and just clearancing the pistons but they dont attend to the ring gap then.
Im not saying spray used pistons either. Newer designs are much better but also have 0 wear and tear on them.