QwkTrip

iTrader: (23)

Looking to buy head studs for my LS7. Does anybody know if the Summit Racing head studs are just rebranded ARP studs? It would save me $100 if the answer is 'yes'.

ARP p/n 234-4317
Summit Racing p/n 910255

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

Don’t know. I’ll say this. I use a lot of Summit ring and pinion sets. I’ve asked a couple of different guys at Summit who makes the gears for them? They both quickly told me that they had no idea. You’ll likely get the same answer concerning the studs.
The ring and pinions work great, run quiet, and setup easy, btw...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (23)

Yes, you're right, I talked to Summit before making this post and they won't say. My experience is Summit can be really nice stuff rebadged for big discount. Hoping that is the case here?

joyridin'

iTrader: (1)

Most Summit stuff that does not involve electronics or electrics are made by quite a few local suppliers. Here in Ohio, there are a lot of small shops making parts for them....and they do it pretty cheap.

Not sure on the bolts, but there are a lot of specialt bolt manufacturers around here.

S10xGN

iTrader: (11)

Assuming they really do have an ARP part number, I'm pretty sure Summit wouldn't sell them unless they were ARP-made parts. Too great a chance for lawsuits/liability issues...

StorminMatt

Well, I know their stock replacement oil pump is just a Melling M295. It even has the stamp on the pump shown in the picture. So if we assume the pictured pump is what they are selling, you will get a Melling pump if you buy their branded pump.

Not sure about the head studs. One thing that is noteworthy is that, while the studs are cheaper than ARP, they are not as cheap as the Chinese studs sold on eBay. This is actually reassuring.

Jimbo1367

If they're studs are cheaper than ARP's, there is a reason.

StorminMatt

There certainly IS a reason. The REAL concern is what that reason is. If it is because they are a volume buyer and can get a good deal, then that isn’t so bad. If they are getting these bolts from another cheaper, but wuality source, that’s not bad either. But if they are reselling cheap Chinese bolts, then THAT’S not so good!

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

Do you now where they are made?

joyridin'

iTrader: (1)

You know, some of the cranks you buy from Callies except their extreme high dollar custom versions are made in China. They get their forgings from China and machine them here.

Sometimes "Made in China" is as clear as mud.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (23)

ARP makes parts per order, so you pay a very high price for low-volume production run. A little production volume can make a tremendous difference in price.

ColeGTO

iTrader: (3)

Yes, up to a point.

The steps to manufacture a bolt/stud really don't change based on quantity. The method used to produce high quality fatigue rated bolts is usually determined by the performance requirements, not the volume.

So, the time to produce EACH piece is the same regardless of "mfg. lot size". This would be considered the "total cycle time".

Where the "volume discount" comes from is the "setup time". Where each step in the process requires a machine/process to be setup and established. This "total setup time" is spread across the total number of parts produced aka. mfg. lot size.

So let's do some quick math:

"Small Lot Size" - 100 pieces
Total Cycle Time per piece - 10 minutes
Total Setup Time for ALL processes - 10 hours

Total Time PER piece - 16 minutes

"Medium Lot Size" - 500 pieces
Total Cycle Time per piece - 10 minutes
Total Setup Time for ALL processes - 10 hours

Total Time PER piece - 11.2 minutes

"Large Lot Size" - 1000 pieces
Total Cycle Time per piece - 10 minutes
Total Setup Time for ALL processes - 10 hours

Total Time PER piece - 10.6 minutes

"Extra Large Lot Size" - 5000 pieces
Total Cycle Time per piece - 10 minutes
Total Setup Time for ALL processes - 10 hours

Total Time PER piece - 10.12 minutes

So you can see as the volume grows to a point, there really isn't a significant reduction in per piece cost after a certain point.

Knowing a bit about the fastener industry, I don't believe the Summit bolts are produced or "private labeled" by ARP. They are most likely the same off-shore fasteners that other people are having made.



Cole

Summitracing

We can't disclose our sources, but the majority of our parts are made in America by manufacturers who excel at their craft. The stud kit is indeed made in America. A salesperson can always tell you where the country of origin is for ANY part we sell, but they won't know who manufacturers the parts if it's under our own brand. That is a different department all together

QwkTrip

iTrader: (23)

Thanks for the reply.

Dragls

I say go for it.

But I would use the ARP installation technique.

Summitracing

Not a bad move....

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi All, the Summit/Atech requirement is a Top Quality product AND good sense as they have the ability to RETURN all defective products to the Manufacturer.
I too have worker on engineering for their "store brand" ignition products with IMPROVEMENT in the quality/life of their "Store" brand vs a "Name" brand item.

My guess is that the Summit Brand Stud is a VERY close match in "stretch" rate compared to the GM engineered head bolt "stretch" rate, good for gasket life.

I offer to test that expansion if samples are provided.

NO ROCKET SCIENCE here, just the same method used to measure Rod Bolt life.

Thus I support the Summit Stud use.

Lance

omc8

iTrader: (7)

Test test test , send Lance some samples let's do it