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Up until recently, my build was on hold due to a medical set back, but now it's rebooted. The plan started as a modest LS3 street upgrade but morphed into a custom 427 on a billet block foundation. I was determined to have wet sleeves, so the Dart Next w/MID's seemed like a shoe-in based on a sale I found. Unfortunately, I missed out the auction, but I still wanted the MID's and ended up the Noonan.
My target is 700rw to 1100rw based on NA vs. turbo, despite previous ambitions that have since become impractical. Not being a builder, it's hard to find the type of shop that specializes in performance builds, and tuners in my area. Seems like most of the top-level builders are back east.
Photo 1. Fresh off the press...
Photo 2. Front View - Raised 55mm Cam Location
Photo 3. Block w/ Darton Wet MID Sleeves
Photo 4. Block with Steel Caps - Custom Oil System Required
Photo 5. Billet Front Cover although a belt drive may be used.
Photo 5. Plazmaman Manifold Race Series with w/102 N.W. DBW-TB
The SS at Fesler Built in Scottsdale; being fitted with Recaro ErgoMed ES seats, and 90 lbs. of insulation
CURRENT PARTS LIST
Noonan: Billet Block
Darton: MID Sleeves
Std Deck Hight
Std Lifter Bosses
Finished Honed
Plazmaman: Race Intake
Plazmaman: Billet Eng Tray
102 Nick Williams DBW-TB (Std Version)
CBM: Billet Front Cover
Borowski: Billet Valve covers
ARH Full-System 1-7/8 to 3" (ceramic)
Harrop: OTR Air Filter/Intake
Lingenfelter: Catch Can
MSD: 8.5mm Wires
Electric Assembly Stand
Last edited by Saber-1; 10-11-2018 at 09:51 AM.
Reason: more to say...
Going to be a very awesome build. Question, though. Why so much bad *** hardware for a 700hp build? A well done H/C LS7 could handle that goal. Unless you want to set this up for some 2k HP pulls later on down the road? lol
Going to be a very awesome build. Question, though. Why so much bad *** hardware for a 700hp build? A well done H/C LS7 could handle that goal. Unless you want to set this up for some 2k HP pulls later on down the road? lol
Perhaps I omitted the caveat of maybe adding a Garrett GTX4202 Turbo. It started out as a 6.2 upgrade, followed by a Dart Next w/MID. When I priced the Noonan w/MID's; the difference wasn't that far off the mark. This would change the target to 1200-HP.
Last edited by Saber-1; 10-10-2018 at 09:12 AM.
Reason: more to say...
Perhaps I omitted the caveat of maybe adding a Garrett Turbo. It started out as a 6.2 upgrade, followed by a Dart Next w/MID. When I priced the Noonan w/MID's; the difference wasn't that far off the mark. This would change the target to 1200-HP.
Makes more sense now. Good luck and I can't wait to see the results.
I would seriously ask around about running the MID setup on the street. I’ve heard stories about the sleeves moving around. Proline Racing, which builds some of the fastest cars/engines in the country, is local to me and does a little work for me, told me they won’t touch an MID block, due to the sleeves moving with street use. They are also hard to keep coolant in them for street use. It’s another reason I went with the Darton dry sleeves. That’s some serious eye candy in your pics, but when it’s all buttoned up, the glitter is gone. All I’m saying is do your homework before you buy.
I would seriously ask around about running the MID setup on the street. I’ve heard stories about the sleeves moving around. Proline Racing, which builds some of the fastest cars/engines in the country, is local to me and does a little work for me, told me they won’t touch an MID block, due to the sleeves moving with street use. They are also hard to keep coolant in them for street use. It’s another reason I went with the Darton dry sleeves. That’s some serious eye candy in your pics, but when it’s all buttoned up, the glitter is gone. All I’m saying is do your homework before you buy.
While the builder at Noonan Race coordinated with Darton when the block and MID sleeves were specified; there was no mention of suitability concerns with a street build. Notwithstanding, I will certainly discuss this with Darton engineering and Noonan. The one assembly process that took longer; Noonan needed a to order/use a brand new diamond head to finish hone; to ensure it was dead-on accurate. In any event, I have a 'plan-b' for projects such as this, so I'm looking forward to learning more. Thanks for posting ~
While the builder at Noonan Race coordinated with Darton when the block and MID sleeves were specified; there was no mention of suitability concerns with a street build. Notwithstanding, I will certainly discuss this with Darton engineering and Noonan. The one assembly process that took longer; Noonan needed a to order/use a brand new diamond head to finish hone; to ensure it was dead-on accurate. In any event, I have a 'plan-b' for projects such as this, so I'm looking forward to learning more. Thanks for posting ~
All Darton sleeves are recommended to be final honed with a diamond head. The ductile iron is much harder than a typical cast iron sleeve. Not trying to talk you out of anything, just recommending you do your homework before you purchase.
All Darton sleeves are recommended to be final honed with a diamond head. The ductile iron is much harder than a typical cast iron sleeve. Not trying to talk you out of anything, just recommending you do your homework before you purchase.
For what it's worth; today I spoke with 'Dusty' at Darton regarding the MID sleeves on a street build. The issue as you described; had to do with inconsistencies with OEM, and some aftermarket cast blocks, combined with improper installation. Nevertheless, they have discontinued the MID sleeve option to all but the 'Noonan Race - Billet Blocks'. Fortunately, that's what I have so Darton assured me that I was good.
*Update* Not that the Dart Next block is bad, it's just that Darton is provisioning MID's for the Noonan or possibly other billet blocks. with the billet block I recall asking about potential issues/benefits with the MID sleeve, but the builder only mentioned how they haven't sold very well; due to the higher costs.
Thanks again for bringing this to my attention, as I have been sitting on this crated block, due to a medical setback.
Last edited by Saber-1; 10-08-2018 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: more to say...
Awesome build and I hope it goes better than hoped. I'd love to do something similar, and was also thinking Dart Next2 with MID sleeves. It surprises me that Dart blocks have shown inconsistencies due to reputation in racing industry to be one of the best.... but castings are an art and it only takes a very small error to show up in issues down the track and some well known names come to mind. There's 3-4 billet options and my guess is any of them doing real well at endurance desert racing on gas would indicate proven cooling at high power in the heat. There'd be the odd billet block in that application I suspect.
Early billet wet blocks suffered from uneven between cylinder cooling which led to hot spots, LSM were amongst the frist to fix that - but I imagine there's no excuse for any of them having that issue now in 2018.
I run a very similar car to your SS - only much older. It has a twin turbo LS3 and I think the sweet spot us around 800 crank hp (about 700rw) - with DOT tires you can drive that all day and hook out of turns. I run 315's rear and 275's up front. On real street rubber... it's fun haha. At 1200hp you'll be point and shoot and WOT will only be possible on decent straights. It is way too much to track 1200hp around a road course for long and expect to keep cool - it'll also lap slower than at 800hp because you'll be white knuckling and sphincter puckering it trying to keep it on the track. At 800hp and decent rubber (tread rating around 100) you can give it death once the set up is right. I'm assuming you are manual. If auto - forget tracking it, the auto will poop itself if you turn too many laps - no way to keep an auto from heat soaking at that power.... well not with turbo TQ anyway, ask me how I know lolz A 700hp NA motor may see the auto last longer.
For drag racing and most street use an auto is fine - turbos and autos are made for each other
Awesome build and I hope it goes better than hoped. I'd love to do something similar, and was also thinking Dart Next2 with MID sleeves. It surprises me that Dart blocks have shown inconsistencies due to reputation in racing industry to be one of the best.... but castings are an art and it only takes a very small error to show up in issues down the track and some well known names come to mind. There's 3-4 billet options and my guess is any of them doing real well at endurance desert racing on gas would indicate proven cooling at high power in the heat. There'd be the odd billet block in that application I suspect.
Early billet wet blocks suffered from uneven between cylinder cooling which led to hot spots, LSM were amongst the frist to fix that - but I imagine there's no excuse for any of them having that issue now in 2018.
I run a very similar car to your SS - only much older. It has a twin turbo LS3 and I think the sweet spot us around 800 crank hp (about 700rw) - with DOT tires you can drive that all day and hook out of turns. I run 315's rear and 275's up front. On real street rubber... it's fun haha. At 1200hp you'll be point and shoot and WOT will only be possible on decent straights. It is way too much to track 1200hp around a road course for long and expect to keep cool - it'll also lap slower than at 800hp because you'll be white knuckling and sphincter puckering it trying to keep it on the track. At 800hp and decent rubber (tread rating around 100) you can give it death once the set up is right. I'm assuming you are manual. If auto - forget tracking it, the auto will poop itself if you turn too many laps - no way to keep an auto from heat soaking at that power.... well not with turbo TQ anyway, ask me how I know lolz A 700hp NA motor may see the auto last longer.
For drag racing and most street use an auto is fine - turbos and autos are made for each other
I didn't make myself clear when I referenced then Dart block, so I appended the post. The Darton Rep stated they discontinued the MID sleeves, with exception to Noonan Race "due to inconsistencies with OEM and some aftermarket blocks." There are no issues with a Dart Next block with MID sleeves; provided they are installed correctly." I was just relieved that I ended up with the one specific block that Darton continues to support with MID's. When I compared the Dart Next2 MID to the Noonan MID; the cost differential wasn't that far off; plus I hopefully ended up with an ideal fit-up.
As for my intended config; it will be a street performance build, and I would be quite content @ 700whp on NA. The 1200 w/turbo (GTX4202).
Trans: While I was offered a manual trans, I opted for the auto due to my physical limitations. Circle-D will build-out the A/T with a twin cooler and an HD output carrier. I will swap the stock rear-end with a Camaro ZL1 case, LPW Ultra-IRS cover, combined with my Harrop/Eaton 8-pinion Truetrac core. I have a set of Forgeline SC1 Monoblocks with a modest 9.5" rear w/285's but will bump it to 10~" w/295~305. Anything more becomes a fitment issue.
Heads: The Zeta platform sedan engine bay is rather tight, so I'm looking at the Dart Pro-1 12º/285cc that maintains a close-to-stock fit-up while being more than capable with a good water jacket.
Last edited by Saber-1; 10-10-2018 at 06:41 PM.
Reason: more to say...
10-06-2018, 02:09 PM
Another 427 Build... 
