yep its a wiped roller

Ill go a 255/269 Duration @.050’’114.5+3.5.702’’/.684’’.... and try some isky bushed rollers, and see wht spring pressures cam guy wants to run.
i confirmed with crow cams what springs when i purchased the cam.....
**** happens when you chase power, its the way it goes. Ill have it back running by friday week.
So anyone have any tips for installing a cam, ill be doing it myself

 

HA. Thats almost exactly the specs I suggested once you account for the lash.
248/262 approx when converter to hydraulic.
What brand cam are you going with this time?
Isky are a great lifter but are expensive.
damn a lifter already stuffed.
I wonder how that happened.

 

[QUOTE=bortous;20234025]HA. Thats almost exactly the specs I suggested once you account for the lash.
248/262 approx when converter to hydraulic.
What brand cam are you going with this time?
Isky are a great lifter but are expensive.
damn a lifter already stuffed.
I wonder how that happened.[/QUOTE]

I’ll bite. The combination is solid. It works well, and makes amazing power. Top shelf parts assembled correctly. We think we have the bases covered with a setup like this. I’m guilty myself. Many others as well. Not everyone loses a lifter wheel with a big setup like this, but it happens. Not sure if Micky is running an .842 or a .903 lifter...prolly an .842, which has a .750 wheel. A solid roller setup is tough on valvetrain. Not just springs. It’s as hard on the lifters as any part of it....maybe harder.
You see guys on lots of forums, not just here, running big solid roller setups with .842 lifters. Makes you feel comfortable with them, but some research and conversations with professionals I’ve had lately shows that perhaps the .842 lifter isn’t big enough. Boils down to bearing diameter being too small for the intended load and rpm. The .842 wheel sees a lot of speed and the axle is the weak link. The needle bearings get abused and begin to break down the heat treated axle coating, even with axle oiling lifters. Bushings are better at seeing a longer axle life, but still see a lot of rpm. Keeping valve lash in check is paramount in this situation also, to reduce the chance of valve float and beating up on the lifters as well as valve tips and rocker rollers.
There’s a reason that lifter wheels keep getting bigger and bigger. Pro Stock lifters are up to 1.220” wheels nowadays. Of course you won’t see any LS build requiring the spring rate that a Pro Stock engine sees, but for comparison sake, the larger diameter wheel rolls slower, and greatly reduces the pressure angle that the lifter sees. The pressure angle, combined with spring rate and rpm, is what breaks down bearings and ultimately axles in lifters. More oil flow, from a HV pump will help cool the lifter wheel, in a high end lifter with pressurized axle oiling, but ultimately a larger diameter lifter with a larger diameter wheel might be the answer. Just thinking out loud. Let the flaming begin.
Of course it could have been a faulty lifter, or even a bad finish on that lobe that caused this issue. I’m not trying to say that we who run a big, solid roller setup are doomed with our .842 lifters, but it’s something to think about for sure.

 

Damn, so moral of this story^^^,bigger would have been better?!

 

It is a rather expensive block upgrade to go with a larger lifter.

You do gain some cam duration from the bigger wheel though so that's cool.

 

What brand and weight oil do you run in it?

 

The lifter wheel diameter i used was .903. Ive checked lash every 2 weeks . Lash recommended is .016, ive tried .016, .014 and .012......Rocker wheel looks perfectly centred on valve......
I really could have picked it up earlier, i noticed 3 weeks ago a .002 difference lash on that lobe , heard no noise difference but was keeping my eye on it. I had a feeling it wasnt rite but thought i may havnt had set that lobe rite. possibly could have saved the cam but lesson learned, any change in lash, even such a small amount, pull intake and valley plate and check lifter wheel.
Im happy with spring rates, rocker geometry is spot on, using 3/8 pushrods so happy there, the crow cam ill never know but it wasnt my 1st choice, happy with Yt rockers, the crower lifters are quality. This issue i will be chalking up to **** happens. How many times have you heard a lifter going on brand new builds, Lots!!!
Oil used has been penrite racing 5w30, oil pressure never dropped below 50psi, last oil change i went to penrite racing 10w40 oil pressure never below 55 psi. i changed weight due to oil temp being happy at 106 degrees and i like doing a mountain run 3 times a week where temps go to 120. Since engine has been running ive done close to 5000miles, built it to drive ti and i drive it hard, changed oil 3 times not including 2 oil changes after 1st start run in.
Road ahead will be pull heads today, ill take heads for spring weights to be checked, buy new pair of lifters, new cam. then get back to seein how fast i can go while spinning the wheels, at the moment im up to 95mph... You Pay to Play

 

.842” lifter body is a .750” wheel
.903” lifter body is a .812” wheel

Pretty significant lifter upgrade your running. Shops want big money to setup a block in a fixture and blueprint the lifter bores, while machining for the larger lifter. The OEM blocks never have the lifters in the optimum location, not sure about the LSX block. Hopefully it’s more refined and lifters are close to right. Should be, for the premium block pricing and GM knowing it’s their race block. Your on the right track with the setup. If you could swing it, Ti valves would bring power while allowing for less spring...which helps everything. Just a thought.
Anyhoo, love the setup, and the car. Keep at it, and keep thread updated please.

 

I just got back from machine shop. Plan forward is to pull heads, take them to be check, buy a pair of lifters, new cam and put it back together,
he said he'll show me how to put a cam in at the shop then come to my place and supervise me putting it in.
one thing he did say was the oil we buy here is not enough zinc, the penrite i use says full zinc but its not really acurate, legally in Aus we are not allowed to use. So ill change to a Joe gibbs oil. What brand of valve do you suggest? coatings?

 

I heard Joe Gibbs oil was breaking down. I'd look into it more before running it. I have ran royal purple, then amsoil z-rod and now amsoil dominator. Good luck with the redo. hopefully youll get it back together fast.

 

Del West or Xceldyne Ti valves. The industry’s absolute best in my opinion. For coatings, they offer several such as Molycoat, PVD-Chromium Nitride, PaCVD-Diamond-like carbon (DLC), and Cermet. If I were you, I’d give Tony a call and talk valves. He’s a wealth of knowledge as you know. It’s not a drop in deal, as your seats have moved a little and there’s work to be done there. Just a process of an aluminum head heat cycling and running. Nothing to be alarmed about.
I run Gibbs oil exclusive in my 434. Good stuff.

 

I like the responses and suggestions.
Chevelle you got some good points there with lifter wheel sizes.
This is another consideration I had when deciding my setup.
Having a solid roller setup and not having to drive it hard to get the most out of it. To 7000rpm or less is where I will be.
i came up with those cam specs based on Tony's ls7 cam he has used and I used the cam timing calculator to adjust for the larger displacement and for once i was almost spot on.
I think the OP's new camshaft will work better than the one he had in there.
After what has happened, I also think its a great idea to get some really high end bushed lifters.

What brand camshaft you going with this time Mick?
Are you going to adjust your spring pressures too?

 

Bort - see the above from post ten. It was micky's back up cam from the get go.

 

Oh.
I didn't even realise that.
Thanks for pointing it out.
I was still so close.

 

Its close to my LLSR and I run pac 1238x springs.

 

Hiocrew Luck...jumping right in and getting back after it is all you can do. You ll be back on the road frying tires in no time.

 

I just thought of something, is this one of those times when an iron block is a big benefit over aluminum? .... because if the lifter bore took the abuse without major damage which by the looks it did, an aluminum block would most probably have chewed up the lifter bore and have to come out the car and pulled apart and get the lifter bore repaired (drilled oversize and bushed).

 

I deleted my previous post about the 15/40 oil, and cut and paste it again here with some changes because i feel i didn't say enough.

Go to your nearest Truckline. Get yourself a 20 litre of Titan 'truck plus' 15/40 diesel oil. Speaking from experience of looking inside my engines since i began using it, over so called "quality" car oils. It keeps the lifter rollers, cam and bearings looking like new. There is no way anyone can get me to run a car oil again. I have been rpm the crap out of my camaro (7500 shifts) and still on oem lifters, oem long block over 130k miles old. It has run Titan 15/40 since i got my hands on it. And so have all of my other daily drivers for the past 10 years.

Also, one guy over on another forum with a 1000hp n/a bbc was having bearing failures and grenaded 2 engines and after him and his engine builder decided it has to be the oil not staying on the bearings, because they had everything else text book perfect, they switched to a diesel 15/40 and he never had an engine failure again. Not to mention how many others have good results with 15/40.

I don't believe that polyolephin guy that posts on the car forums. I've seen too many high HP n/a engines, even with huge roller cams and high spring pressures using diesel 15/40 with success. Even Ray Barton used it exclusively on his 1100+hp N/A gen2 hemi builds that run insane spring pressures.

 

Yes it is. I have an aluminum block in my shop right now that just got a lifter bore sleeve due to this exact same scenario. This engine never saw street time with new camshaft and lifters, and it’s was a mess. Crappy part is, the metal coming off of the cam lobe and lifter wheel is very hard. It gets “slung” into the two adjacent cylinders and destroys the bores and pistons skirts. Metal everywhere in the engine. Usually needs a tear down and complete rebuild. Hopefully not the case for Mickey here.

 

We have bushed .904 lifters in our motor. Cost $200.00 to have the lifter holes bored on a Dart LS Next iron block. Just remember to add the extra weight into your calculations to get the right spring pressure you will need to spin it to your target rpm.