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As for hydraulic verses solid. IMO solid hands down. I'm not knocking hydraulic at all. Everyone talks about all this maintenance with solids and I don't see it at all. Every time I have checked my lash on my solids over the years they were dead on. Which after seeing this all the time we don't check them but maybe 4 times a year. No bid deal at all. If you did find one off you better be checking out everything because most likely there is more problems. We drive our car on the street quite often too. The valve covers with the way the coils mount all you have to do is unplug the one plug for the harness for the coils. You can get right to the bolts to pull the covers very easy.
As for hydraulic verses solid. IMO solid hands down. I'm not knocking hydraulic at all. Everyone talks about all this maintenance with solids and I don't see it at all. Every time I have checked my lash on my solids over the years they were dead on. Which after seeing this all the time we don't check them but maybe 4 times a year. No bid deal at all. If you did find one off you better be checking out everything because most likely there is more problems. We drive our car on the street quite often too. The valve covers with the way the coils mount all you have to do is unplug the one plug for the harness for the coils. You can get right to the bolts to pull the covers very easy.
As for hydraulic verses solid. IMO solid hands down. I'm not knocking hydraulic at all. Everyone talks about all this maintenance with solids and I don't see it at all. Every time I have checked my lash on my solids over the years they were dead on. Which after seeing this all the time we don't check them but maybe 4 times a year. No bid deal at all. If you did find one off you better be checking out everything because most likely there is more problems. We drive our car on the street quite often too. The valve covers with the way the coils mount all you have to do is unplug the one plug for the harness for the coils. You can get right to the bolts to pull the covers very easy.
It's good to hear you have had such great results. Is there a chance those borowski bushed lifters are the BAM lifters? I think there's a good chance they might be, but maybe not.
Solid lifters are better in terms of performance because all the slop in the valvetrain is taken out with no plunger in the lifter.
Thanks to the lobe designs these days lash does not have to be checked so frequently like in the past.
I wonder if low lash solids will eventually catch on in the future.
People forget.... solid lifters predated hydraulic lifters by a lot of years. The whole reason hydraulic lifters were introduced was.......... to maintain zero lash and reduce end user maintenance.
It's good to hear you have had such great results. Is there a chance those borowski bushed lifters are the BAM lifters? I think there's a good chance they might be, but maybe not.
I don't believe they are but could be wrong. Borowski has many parts from different manufacturers that are built to their specs and they have there own part number. So they could be made for them by BAM.
Ive been researching why this issue occurred and what i found was the cam the engine builder chose was a BBC cam , which in the crow cams catalogue states spring pressure on the seat to be 240 and 510 open . I questioned engine builder and crow cams about springs pressures in september last yr and have a reply letter from Crow cams saying 180-200seat and 500 open will be ok. Why go against what their catalogue says!
The springs in it now were set at 175avg seat and 510 avg open. Everything points to not enough pressure on the seat causing valve bounce. I had been waiting 18 months for the engine and was starting to get really pissed off with engine builder so looks like instead of getting a purpose street solid roller and having to wait 3-4 weeks, he'd get a BBC cam from crow which would take a few days... Did make good power but as i found out, not reliably...
Ive been researching why this issue occurred and what i found was the cam the engine builder chose was a BBC cam , which in the crow cams catalogue states spring pressure on the seat to be 240 and 510 open . I questioned engine builder and crow cams about springs pressures in september last yr and have a reply letter from Crow cams saying 180-200seat and 500 open will be ok. Why go against what their catalogue says!
The springs in it now were set at 175avg seat and 510 avg open. Everything points to not enough pressure on the seat causing valve bounce. I had been waiting 18 months for the engine and was starting to get really pissed off with engine builder so looks like instead of getting a purpose street solid roller and having to wait 3-4 weeks, he'd get a BBC cam from crow which would take a few days... Did make good power but as i found out, not reliably...
Whoah.
Now things are starting to make more sense.
I was always curious as to why there was only a 6 degree split with your camshaft for an ls7 build.
This explains it.
The shifty ***** gives you the wrong cam and doesn't tell you about it.
Because of it, your spring pressures were far too low and this explains the failure.
There was nothing wrong with the lifters after all.
I still think you should have at least 200lb on the seat especially with your intended rpm range.
How was the vehicle on the dyno?
Did it fall off at high rpm when you took it?
Do you have a dyno sheet?
What brand camshaft you going with this time?
I didnt see a dyno sheet, no mention of anything wrong. Never felt power loss, no sign of reversion in intake. I think ill use the pac1237x springs, should be able to just swap springs and use spring hardware i have already....
I didnt see a dyno sheet, no mention of anything wrong. Never felt power loss, no sign of reversion in intake. I think ill use the pac1237x springs, should be able to just swap springs and use spring hardware i have already....
Sounds to me you are guessing what spring you should use.
If the titanium valves are that much lighter you might be able to get away with using a lighter spring. Again, you need to calculate the weight of the components and use the right spring to suit.
It also seems you don't want to disclose what camshaft brand you are using upon asking multiple times.
If you don't want to say, it's fine. I would appreciate confirmation.
I don't want to read/hear you had issues again with something that could have easily been avoided.
175 on the seat seems way low to me for a solid roller. Even the btr spring kit for your typical street sized hydraulic are 155 lbs @ 1.780", 400 lbs @ 1.130.
I'd want at least 220 at the seat and at least 500 open for a solid roller.
Anything under 250 on the seat and 550 open should not be an issue imo especially for an upgraded .904" lifter with the bigger wheels that you have.
Also, when i emailed the stockist in Sydney for a quote on BAM lifters, he said he has several customers using their LS lifters in needle roller version in circuit cars and they've had good success. And he has sold many sets as i could see from his facebook. I think they were $1250 the set for the needles, and $1650 for the bushed version from memory. The person who makes them in USA worked for Crane cams desigining their lifters and they are USA made.
If you are curious google "Race MAX Direct" and BAM lifters to find his facebook. Many pics/customer reviews on there. A lot of people are using them now. And no i'm not affiliated with him in any way.
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The cam ill put in has at a minimum 180 seat 500 open. The pac 1237x shimmed will give me 220 seat and 575 open. All i can do is follow cam suppliers spring pressures
The cam ill put in has at a minimum 180 seat 500 open. The pac 1237x shimmed will give me 220 seat and 575 open. All i can do is follow cam suppliers spring pressures
220 is a lot better
Originally Posted by Mickyinks
I guy i know used them in his bbc, went thru 2 sets and changed to bearing and all good. he said he was told the bushed dont hold oil after shut down like a bearing does... just researching.
The guy that sells the bam lifters also recommended to me the needle version for street/circuit applications, and bushed for crazy spring pressures in high end drag engines where mileage is a lot less.
The pin oiled and steel on steel idea seems the best to me, no bush or needles whatsoever, let the oil pressure keep them apart. I'm trying to remember who has done that, the name of them, and i can't remember. I saw it mentioned on a forum maybe a year ago now. It is one of the more boutique valvetrain shops for high end drag racers over in USA. If i think of it i'll mention it.
Actually what am i thinking, the BAM also have a solid steel bush with DLC coating option. Duh. I just saw it mentioned on facebook. So that is basically the same principle. No needles, or bronze bush that can collapse/wear out. Just hardened steel on coated steel, and pressure oiled. It would be interesting to see the longevity of them in a street/circuit car. Seems to me like it would work well and eliminate potential for failure as long as the oil is getting in there properly.
Hopefully everything works out well for you.
Spring pressures at 220 seem much better suited than what you had before.
If you can get away with the same but with a lighter spring it might be a better way to go.
Keep the thread updated and I look forward to seeing what happens.
Sounds to me you are guessing what spring you should use.
If the titanium valves are that much lighter you might be able to get away with using a lighter spring. Again, you need to calculate the weight of the components and use the right spring to suit.
It also seems you don't want to disclose what camshaft brand you are using upon asking multiple times.
If you don't want to say, it's fine. I would appreciate confirmation.
I don't want to read/hear you had issues again with something that could have easily been avoided.
dude you need to chill. You had the most f#@k'ed up set up in here and had to start over now you come in here on this guy like this? So what if he dont want to tell you his complete combination, or maybe he feels by not answering you he isnt feeding a troll. Who knows, but you overstepped your boundaries.
dude you need to chill. You had the most f#@k'ed up set up in here and had to start over now you come in here on this guy like this? So what if he dont want to tell you his complete combination, or maybe he feels by not answering you he isnt feeding a troll. Who knows, but you overstepped your boundaries.
I am chilled.
I know my previous setup wasn't the best but I don't want to see someone make a mistake like I did with the springs.
I have already seen two failures on here and I don't want to see a repeat. I like it when things are set up and running right.
It's a positive vibe I feel in the air when I read good things.
I also suggest you keep your assumptions about my posts to yourself.
I am not trolling anyone so worry about your own so called "boundaries".
Don't misinterpret the way I write.
If the OP has an issue with what I am writing he can PM me to discuss it.
Thank you.
I have the cam out , looks like i caught it early. pressure over the nose looks ok but looks like was light around the base. Hard to say but just by looking how it wore.
Bores look great , cam bearings look good, will give it a good clean and wait for parts. Heads will be ready by Friday if freight goes as planned and the only thing ill be waiting on it lifters. Waiting for an email back from Crower. Im pretty sure they can replace roller with a bushed roller so once i get confirmation ill send to them.
Good thing is i dodged the bullet and can bang it back together no machining
Lifters are on there way to the states. A new set would cost me $1500aus but crower will rebuild them for $630 or $930 for bushed. After talking with them i was advised to go with the bearing wheels. They said any rubbish at all in the oil will stop oil gettin to the bushing and with only running low pressures as such the bearings will be better.
Just run correct spring pressures
Bought a degree wheel kit today , so 1st cam install in a 4 wheeler for me.
cleaned up short block and all parts, cleaned out stud threads, ready to reassemble. Decided not to install dry sump, ill start to build my darton wet sleeved ls2 short block, ill half fill it and itll go in my ski boat. dry sump is perfect for the boat due to the constant lean angle
Currently i have 11.82:1 static compression with 8.27 dynamic compression. With the new cam ill have 8.69 dynamic compression.
What is the general consensus on dynamic compression running pump gas?
04-17-2020, 04:55 AM
