I found this article of the popular cathedral heads out there.
I have been contemplating this route or a set of Ls7 heads for a future build.
I'm 50/50 on either one as each has its pro's and cons.
With your experiences which cathedral head would make the most power and be the most fun to drive in terms of under the curve power etc?
I have heard of the TFS 245CC head being one of the best but don't know much about it.
Obviously Mamo's heads are great too.


https://www.lsenginediy.com/ultimate...r-heads-guide/

 

Best for what? Seems highly dependent on intended use and goals.
Pump gas
H/C
stock cubes
max RPM
boost/NA
etc.

 

Pump gas or e85
Between 400-427 cubes
7-7500 max rpm
NA

Just something strong for the street that will be quick and have explosive power especially under the curve.
I certainly don't want to go through all the **** I am going through with my current build.

 

For that you want the most flow at the highest velocity. Port speed matters. I would consider talking to Mast Motorsports, Tony, and Frankenstein if it was my coin and had that list of requirements.

 

On paper, the FED F110 265cc looks pretty good if money is of no concern. The 10 degree valve angle, raised runners, and large valve cover rail has potential to make a lot of power in capable hands. You will certainly need a good manifold to take advantage of what it can do though.

AFR and TFS make very good heads are very user friendly. They're more closely modeled after stock heads so auxiliary components (valves, rockers, headers, etc) usually work with less fuss.

 

I've played with TF245s on 400+ cube they drove great but IMO they didn't make the power I was expecting. We ended up moving to a OEM Ls7 and gain 60hp+ 30tq+ and shifted the power band higher which was ok. Down low the TF245s made the car feel strong just didn't have the top end we wanted. I slapped them on a turbo car which IMO did great for the money, 2 seasons later we went MAST 11* which also gained over the 245s. Just comes down to what you are after, TF245s have a purpose for sure.

I'm waiting on a customer to step up to some F110s 247cc heads or F110 265cc heads. That be something I'd like to see myself

 

I think for the simplicity, I would look at AFR 260. I seen a thread where these heads did pretty remarkably well on a bigger engine. As in better than stock ported LS7 castings typically do on a 427. I think that was over on Covfefe Forum. LS3-based, so you'd be able to keep most of your existing stuff. And given the form factor, easy to find parts to fit. Another really good head for that displacement range is the mast medium bore LS3 head. check out what Big Hammer has done with those heads, and they are "small". If you're looking to go a bit more top shelf or off the shelf alltogether, you could look into aftermarket LS7 heads and using offset dowels to unshroud the intake valve i the bore is under 4.125. Possibly, you can even look into having some custom work done by one of the wizards one-off. Like a custom Darin Morgan job on a BR7 casting.

Keep in mind, the top three considerations for heads are airspeed, airspeed, and airspeed. If you get those three right, flow will be there. if you don't, flow wont matter. Easiest way to estimate velocity is to divide the flow by the port volume. Higher number means you can reasonably expect a higher airspeed.

 

Good information.
I take it you fitted those trickflows on an LS 427?
How did the LS7 heads feel in the low and mid range compared to the trickflows?
Is that 60hp at the rear wheels or at the crank?
Too many options.
Is there a cathedral head that can make almost as much top end power as an LS7 head?
if I can find something good I can keep my current XBlock and just change all the top end.
LS7 heads will require me to get a new block with a larger bore.
Have you tried mamos heads?

 

Short answer, no. Nothing flows like the LS7 heads. Even if you get the cathedral out to the same volume, the flow is down. The LS7 runners are raised, so it's a straighter shot to the valve. if you look in the port of a good LS7 head, you can see almost the entire valve, not just the half from the stem to the furthest point.

Also, there are offset dowel pins available that will move the heads over so you can run a LS7 head on a smaller bore.

 

The Brodix catherdral 245s looks real promising flowing in over at 370 cfm out the box.

I have seen them in person on a boosted car but have yet to see anybody run them on naturally aspirated build....

Im keeping my eyes on these to see what they can do.

Meanwhile, the TFS 245s have broken some records. Myself in person have seen a 416ci with TFS 245s runs 9s with a 6 speed in a 3450 lb car with a hydraulic roller and trap over 135 mph. Car has the potential to be faster they say. It leaves the line ugly....

 

x2. Most of the naturally aspirated fast fast cars in the development years ran or run TFS. Lots of new stuff out there, cant say if better or worse but you wont go wrong with TFS or Mamo.

LS7 head wins on power but sucks on durability with the 1.8 ratio it eats guides up fast. Some Jessel stuff and a good clever head guy ( Frankenstein maybe?) will probably be able to sort this out but at that price point your going to want BIG cubes to justify the cost

 

An aftermarket ported ls7 heads with stainless exhaust valves and good (no extra guide play) Del West intake tite valves using roller tip rockers does amazing job (I found this out by accident) cause I always used Mast or Trick Flow.

 

I seen once where Darin Morgan recommends using a nickel guide from CHE to counter the issue. Tony uses bronze guides. I have found that simply using roller tips and lash caps and getting the wipe pattern right seems to be more critical on LS7 vs LS1/3 stuff.

 

Ive been waiting on a thread like this. Gets my blood pumping pretty good. I have some recipes from here and there . He are a few to give you guys something to think about.

416ci, LS3 heads and LS3 intake, 3450 lbs
10.49 @ 131 mph , BTR cam

403ci, AFR 230s, fast 102, 3400 lbs
10.64@ 129.99

402ci, TFS 235s, fast 102mm, 3650lbs
10.35@ 133 plus , Pat G cam

418ci, PRC 247s, fast 102 mm, 3300lbs
6.47 @ 103 mph 1/8 , Cam motion Stoker king cam

427ci, LS7 block , WCCH LS7 heads, fast LS7 102mm intake , 3400 lbs, Ragin Racing cam
10.34 @ 134.56

413ci, (4.1 stroke) LS2 block, mast 245s , 3720lbs , fast 102mm , Pat G cam
10.83@ 129 mph

I have more combos WROTE DOWN in my but thats all i can remember off the top of my head. By the way all combos above are ruuning hydraulic rollers and are on pump gas and all are 6 speed cars.

 

Texas Speed went 8.9's in the 1/4 mile N/A with their prc small bore ls7 heads on a LS3 in a 5th gen Camaro which isn't a light car. They were trying to prove a point. I'm sure they must have hand worked the heads to maximum effort to achieve that and the cam idled at 1200rpm, but as those heads come out the box I think they would do more than ok for what you want and will fit on your 408 as is.

I bought my small bore LS7 heads and T&D rockers from an ex 24hr Daytona nascar when they came along, because what I have seen over the years from some head/cam factory LS7 corvettes both power and 1/4 mile numbers, I don't think a cathedral can really come close to good ls7 heads for all out performance. Some trickflow 245's have, there's a past member on here went 8.6's n/a in the 1/4 mile using them, but that build had 30k usd in just the engine which he said himself as I saw his car for sale on racingjunk.com a while back. It was a total max effort deal.

Raised port heads like LS7's don't lose mid range torque if they're not hogged out too large, they just make more power/torque everywhere due to better cylinder fill. Look at what some SB2.2 heads SBC's are doing, I saw a Torana for sale on gumtree just a few days ago, 400 something ci with SB2 heads, pump gas, single plane with dominator carb, 860hp engine dyno'd. And there's been others do the same and run 8 second 1/4 miles naturally aspirated Those heads the ports are crazy tall (pic below of raw castings). But a good effort 400+ci LS with ls7 heads can also make similar power with single plane intake like the CID. Maybe not quite 860 on pump gas, but low 800 is doable. I'm too far into LS parts now so i'll stick with it, and there's always the turbo option when you decide you want stupid power.

 

You and I went through this in a different thread. Top ten NA fast cars were ls7 or cathedral with one ls3 head in at 9. Three of the top 4 were ls7 iirc.

 

Thats right, just cant remember everything. Im 31 now so i cant remember what I ate yesterday

 

The newer Brodix Cathedral casting does look good...thing with Brodix if you buy enough you can have a or any casting to your liking with options. As Richard has done with Brodix Ls7 small bore heads and as the team that builds those Dirt engines on the thread I posted. A Cathedral port is what it is and the Rectangular port is as well. As long as you can get the Area and a good size valve ...

Fill the cylinder and match it up: cylinder head csa > size, runner length & intake plenum, crank size..cam it and ...

 

I asked Zach a few questions about runner filling with Epoxy.. wink, wink,
and it's uses on a street engine... Never hurt to ask a question...LOL! Not ready to ask teacher anything yet...just Browsing...

 

That's nice... what were the answers? Or they never got asked...