Dart SHP Pro Iron 434
02-19-2020, 04:43 AM
#101
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
If your free this weekend i can come down your way and we go for a spin so you know exactly how the ls7 heads works with everything.
Just think the ls7 heads leave you more room to grow. You want torque, ls7 with the fast long runners will achieve what you want. Then if you want more later swap in the short runners n a bigger cam...If you want max effort you wont achieve it with the 245s.
As it stands now with the build id go a. 245/252 .704 .701 113+2 cam.
Itll be an awesome build any which way.
Just think the ls7 heads leave you more room to grow. You want torque, ls7 with the fast long runners will achieve what you want. Then if you want more later swap in the short runners n a bigger cam...If you want max effort you wont achieve it with the 245s.
As it stands now with the build id go a. 245/252 .704 .701 113+2 cam.
Itll be an awesome build any which way.
02-19-2020, 06:52 AM
#102
ModSquad
iTrader: (6)
02-19-2020, 07:24 AM
#103
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
The following 2 users liked this post by Darth_V8r:
hiltsy855 (02-19-2020), lazerlemonta (02-19-2020)
02-19-2020, 08:24 AM
#105
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
Lol.
Good one.
Mick, I'm not saying your setup does not make torque, it does and i like it. It's a great setup.
i can hear the tyres chirp at about 4000rpm.
When i say low end im talking about in the 2000rpm range where i am with my automatic. Yours is manual so it's different.
Don't forget I only want power to 7000rpm which is the sweet spot for the cathedral setup.
i think we see things differently here.
If you have read my thread Tony explains the differences between the ls7 and cathedral.
The cathedral by nature just makes more power and torque in the lower rpm ranges up to about 6000rpm. Sharper throttle and part throttle in these rpm ranges too. It is what it is. It's in no way putting down the ls7 heads.
The ls7 has other strengths the cathedrals don't have and these advantages are not as important to me.
Don't take it as an attack as it's certainly not my intention.
Once my engine is complete we can meet up and go for a drive in each others vehicle so we can feel the differences.
Good one.
Mick, I'm not saying your setup does not make torque, it does and i like it. It's a great setup.
i can hear the tyres chirp at about 4000rpm.
When i say low end im talking about in the 2000rpm range where i am with my automatic. Yours is manual so it's different.
Don't forget I only want power to 7000rpm which is the sweet spot for the cathedral setup.
i think we see things differently here.
If you have read my thread Tony explains the differences between the ls7 and cathedral.
The cathedral by nature just makes more power and torque in the lower rpm ranges up to about 6000rpm. Sharper throttle and part throttle in these rpm ranges too. It is what it is. It's in no way putting down the ls7 heads.
The ls7 has other strengths the cathedrals don't have and these advantages are not as important to me.
Don't take it as an attack as it's certainly not my intention.
Once my engine is complete we can meet up and go for a drive in each others vehicle so we can feel the differences.
02-19-2020, 09:00 AM
#107
Moderator
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: My own internal universe
Posts: 10,446
Received 1,838 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
02-19-2020, 09:01 AM
#108
How do you plan on doing anything at 2000 rpm with a 3200-3600 stall converter?? Once you start accelerating the trans will either kick down, or you’ll sit in the converter at 3200 until the wheel speed catches up. Once you redline and shift you’ll never see low rpm again.
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
02-19-2020, 09:09 AM
#109
How do you plan on doing anything at 2000 rpm with a 3200-3600 stall converter?? Once you start accelerating the trans will either kick down, or you’ll sit in the converter at 3200 until the wheel speed catches up. Once you redline and shift you’ll never see low rpm again.
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
02-19-2020, 09:32 AM
#111
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
You are not the only one thing to think that.
I was going to go LS7 heads and this was my first thought. And I never said LS7 heads lack torque down low! They have LESS torque down low compared to the AFR 245cc head.
After going over it with Tony countless times the LS7 head is not the one suitable for my goals.
I drive in traffic, have a heavy car at over 4000lb and I won't really be driving it hard. I want the power to be there in reserve. With half throttle inputs you will be moving/accelerating like others cars do at full throttle.
I love that part throttle response. Razor sharp response at all rpm's.
Even Tony says his LS7 builds are more focused on maximum hp and light cars.that go racing because this head screams in the top end. But then again it is versatile and can be used in other applications too.
Micks car is an example of this head in a heavy car. But I bet it hauls *** and being a manual it makes things easier.
I am more focused in the lower RPM ranges as that is where I will be most of the time.
Losing some hp at the top is a sacrifice I am willing to make a for a fat flat torque curve that pulls hard at every rpm.
I will certainly do what I gotta do. haha
02-19-2020, 09:42 AM
#114
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
How do you plan on doing anything at 2000 rpm with a 3200-3600 stall converter?? Once you start accelerating the trans will either kick down, or you’ll sit in the converter at 3200 until the wheel speed catches up. Once you redline and shift you’ll never see low rpm again.
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
No one understands what you’re trying to do.
Many, many c6z dyno sheets out there end their dyno pulls before 7000 making over 600whp. Most 560-580whp packages never get past 6500.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...hp-580-tq.html
First of all I am not racing. At all.
This is a hot street car that I want to drive nice and be super responsive at every rpm. I want it to be quick on the street without having to nail the throttle.
Powerband will be to 7000rpm maybe slightly over depending on how it goes.
Tony and I are building this for brutal mid range punch and camming it up well to help the top end hang on to 7000rpm with a FAST 102mm.
It's all explained in my thread.
I'm so intrigued by how meticulous Tony is with every aspect of this build so far.
The man is more excited than me I think.
He is working out exactly what everything needs to be to the finest detail.
Shooting me emails throughout the day and night.
What a legend.
02-19-2020, 09:44 AM
#115
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
02-19-2020, 09:51 AM
#117
It almost sounds like you should put 4.11's in the car if there is such a major concern with low speed driving manners.
02-19-2020, 09:58 AM
#118
Ok. Let me explain.
First of all I am not racing. At all.
This is a hot street car that I want to drive nice and be super responsive at every rpm. I want it to be quick on the street without having to nail the throttle.
Powerband will be to 7000rpm maybe slightly over depending on how it goes.
Tony and I are building this for brutal mid range punch and camming it up well to help the top end hang on to 7000rpm with a FAST 102mm.
It's all explained in my thread.
I'm so intrigued by how meticulous Tony is with every aspect of this build so far.
The man is more excited than me I think.
He is working out exactly what everything needs to be to the finest detail.
Shooting me emails throughout the day and night.
What a legend.
First of all I am not racing. At all.
This is a hot street car that I want to drive nice and be super responsive at every rpm. I want it to be quick on the street without having to nail the throttle.
Powerband will be to 7000rpm maybe slightly over depending on how it goes.
Tony and I are building this for brutal mid range punch and camming it up well to help the top end hang on to 7000rpm with a FAST 102mm.
It's all explained in my thread.
I'm so intrigued by how meticulous Tony is with every aspect of this build so far.
The man is more excited than me I think.
He is working out exactly what everything needs to be to the finest detail.
Shooting me emails throughout the day and night.
What a legend.
02-19-2020, 10:00 AM
#119
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
So you're saying that you are at mild/part throttle below the stall speed and more lowend torque will accelerate easier than something that has more topend and a softer lowend? You're saying you want more lowend to get the torque converter to act tighter btw It almost sounds like you should put 4.11's in the car if there is such a major concern with low speed driving manners.
It almost sounds like you should put 4.11's in the car if there is such a major concern with low speed driving manners.
I don't know how to explain it anymore. lol
I want more low end end than what I had before yes but also more mid range and top end compared to what I had before too.
This setup will definitely achieve that.
02-19-2020, 10:03 AM
#120
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
I originally had 243 castings on my LS2.
I made a big mistake by listening to someone and getting rid of them and going to a set of LS3 ported heads.
I wanted to cnc my stock castings originally because I was happy with them but just wanted more power everywhere.
These would have worked well on my 408 actually I believe.
But anyway, such is life
These AFR's will be much stronger everywhere compared to the 243's.
So all is good.
I made a big mistake by listening to someone and getting rid of them and going to a set of LS3 ported heads.
I wanted to cnc my stock castings originally because I was happy with them but just wanted more power everywhere.
These would have worked well on my 408 actually I believe.
But anyway, such is life
These AFR's will be much stronger everywhere compared to the 243's.
So all is good.