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Help with leakdown/compression results

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Old May 29, 2020 | 08:54 PM
  #41  
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You might need a slight retune for hotter spark. Nothing major
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Old May 30, 2020 | 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
I'm referring to the 20A "Engine Sensor" fuse on the 4th gen F-body. It supplies power to a number of sensors, including MAF, O2's, reverse gate, etc. The power to my wideband controller comes from a ignition on source in the driver door fuse block.
It can only be MAF and O2. Anything to do with reverse is not a sensor.

If you're blowing a fuse relating to anything like that, that's a major problem and could have caused damage to either of those items although it's either user error at some point or a wiring fault.
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Old May 30, 2020 | 11:44 AM
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Fuse blowing is intermittent and began after Shop A returned the car to me, blamed it on pre-existing old harness. At that point, it seemed as if every time they repaired one follow-up issue, something else broke. I punted on allowing them to further troubleshoot the remaining new issues that developed only after getting the car back. I had two different shops try to find the fuse problem without long term success. I asked PSI if they made a new oem engine harness for my model & pcm, and they said no; I'd need to convert to a 411 PCM. I have no interest in that conversion.

I don't know if I'll have better luck at a dealer. I obviously want it fixed correctly, but I don't want to spend unlimited funds for someone to practice on the car either.

Last edited by JimMueller; Jun 17, 2020 at 01:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 30, 2020 | 12:04 PM
  #44  
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What year and type of car do you have?
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Old May 30, 2020 | 07:32 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by RonSSNova
What year and type of car do you have?
The car in my signature.
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Old May 30, 2020 | 08:44 PM
  #46  
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I got started on replacing the injectors this afternoon. I couldn't take off just the fuel rail due to the safety rails at the back, and we know it's not much work to get the intake off. Most of the effort included working around how Shop A had routed the wires behind the manifold.

I noticed one of the two cylinder #2 wires was broken, which both me and Shop B missed or perhaps it hadn't completely snapped off before; they said they'll fix it for free if I obtain a connector, which I've ordered. Surely that was the source of the misfire. Waiting for TB & manifold gaskets that should arrive by Monday. Got the new injectors on the new fuel rail, waiting for some new EV1>EV6 adapters as mine look a little beat up. There was oil mist on the front of the TB blade and a small pool of it at the bottom of the blade. Oil pressure sender base was dry, as were all of the threads, it actually looked new on the threads. Top of the valley cover, but only the back half, had an oil film on it, not sure where that would have originated; any oil originating off the manifold gaskets should dribble down the V between the edge of the valley cover and the head. Head intake runners are mostly brown/black, manifold is wet inside. I've cleaned up all except catch can stuff and still working on the interior intake manifold.

I don't remember if there was a process to clean the head intake runners while the heads are installed? Not interested in pulling the heads at this time, as it was a PITA to do it at home 15 years ago. But I have head studs now, maybe that'd make it easier in the future?

How should I route hoses with the following available connections? What size hoses do I need? If those hoses can't compatible with the fittings, where do I get the adapters? I'm open to buying different valve covers.
1) DS valve cover (only one vertical port in the rear)
2) PS front valve cover (only one horizontal port in the front)
3) Valley cover
4) Intake manifold
5) Throttle body
6) Small catch can with a single inlet and single outlet that looks like this:
http://nebula.wsimg.com/75bc401ec419...&alloworigin=1
7) I haven't had a PCV valve that looks like this since I swapped my LS1 intake to a LS6 intake on a LS1 engine 15 years ago.
https://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corvette-pcv-valve-1997-2004.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=& scid=scplp25-187986-1&sc_intid=25-187986-1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4sCb8fvc6QIVha_ICh0-tA09EAQYBSABEgKD1vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#

Where do I get those GM loom clips that hold the large harness on each side of the fuel rail to the fuel rail?

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Old May 30, 2020 | 10:33 PM
  #47  
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When doing the leak-down, was air coming out of the crank case or intake/exhaust manifold?
What I see kinda sounds like a engine that did not seat the rings,, On track cars I use a specific break in oil,
a lot of burnishing happens in that fist 5K miles between the oil rings and the cylinders.

Joe gibbs is what I use, but any higher ZDDP oil helps. Many think that the cams don't need it any more but just based on observation and gut the engines I've seen that got a break in oil have a more consistent cam wear pattern, and a more consistent bore condition.

Now most of those engines are sprints, and get a couple laps then 30+ minutes of redline for break-in time.. but works for me..
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Old May 30, 2020 | 11:29 PM
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The leak down photo above shows it was coming out of the oil cap. When the engine was built we used generic off the shelf dino break in oil. I know the oil was changed quickly after initial startup, and it may have been changed a second time before I took possession, it's been too long for me to remember exactly. Changed oil again at 500 miles, and I think again after 1500 miles. I've been changing oil every 2-3K miles, still on name brand dino oil.

Last edited by JimMueller; Jun 17, 2020 at 01:24 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old May 31, 2020 | 11:16 AM
  #49  
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Should I reinstall these brackets behind the fuel rail? It appears I could remove the fuel rail without removing the manifold in the future if not reinstalled. Not sure how much of a safety issue that causes.


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Old May 31, 2020 | 11:16 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead
When doing the leak-down, was air coming out of the crank case or intake/exhaust manifold?
What I see kinda sounds like a engine that did not seat the rings,, On track cars I use a specific break in oil,
a lot of burnishing happens in that fist 5K miles between the oil rings and the cylinders.

Joe gibbs is what I use, but any higher ZDDP oil helps. Many think that the cams don't need it any more but just based on observation and gut the engines I've seen that got a break in oil have a more consistent cam wear pattern, and a more consistent bore condition.

Now most of those engines are sprints, and get a couple laps then 30+ minutes of redline for break-in time.. but works for me..
With the correct hone job, the rings are seated before the engine even starts. If you’re “wearing in” parts, you’re wearing them out.
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Old May 31, 2020 | 04:11 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
Should I reinstall these brackets behind the fuel rail? It appears I could remove the fuel rail without removing the manifold in the future if not reinstalled. Not sure how much of a safety issue that causes.

They're an odd piece...not really sure how they'd add much safety, although they're fitted for some reason.

I wouldnt have any concerns about not using them
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 01:53 PM
  #52  
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Since I'm unable to get in touch with David / MightyMouse to speak with him verbally, I'm looking at other kits. Who else makes a good kit?
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Old Jun 1, 2020 | 06:40 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by JimMueller
Since I'm unable to get in touch with David / MightyMouse to speak with him verbally, I'm looking at other kits. Who else makes a good kit?
The best kit by far is mighty mouse, i had the same problem with communication so built my own . If you dont want to build your own kit keep trying to get onto mighty mouse, if you can build your own kit refer back to my previous post on how to run it, ill say again one way breather is the key ,also pcv valve.
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Old Jun 2, 2020 | 05:10 PM
  #54  
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Yeah, communication before the sale is just as important to me as communications after, and so far I'm not feeling it. I'll look back at your recommendation.
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Old Jun 6, 2020 | 09:15 PM
  #55  
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If I use the recommended MM C5/C6 Mild kit, then the hose diameter (-6AN or 3/8) and hose routing (can inlet to LS3 valley cover (that has a built-in PCV), outlet to LS3 intake manifold) will remain the same as I'm using now based upon the MM installation guide. So if the hose size and routing is the same, what's so special about the MM can that makes it worth $300? The additional PCV in the can? It's not just MM.... Elite, and RX are even more expensive.

There is a similar PCV discussion happening on FRRAX (which is a F-body autocross/road race forum) regarding large amounts of oil in a catch can during HPDE events. Why is MM recommending -6AN and others say to run the largest hose possible? I'd certainly ask MM if I could talk to him directly.

[Name] I'll say it again, closed system means your PCV will build up a vacuum "reserve" in the crank case; when WOT that reserve gets depleted. Without that reserve of vacuum in the crank case, when you hit WOT you will puke oil faster. If you are still using the factory 3/8" bung in the valve cover, it will puke even faster because it's just a little straw.

To keep it simple and forget all of my plumbing, you need this:

Late LS6 Valley cover -> good PCV catch can -> intake PCV port

Baffled stock or better valve cover with big fat 5/8" bung minimum -> big fat 5/8 minimum hose -> big catch can -> big fat hose -> intake bellow/air cleaner

In order for the above to work best, you want the fattest breather hoses possible, long distances, and good baffling both in the valve cover and inside the catch can. As an added plus keep the catch cans away from heat and wrap the hoses to keep them from getting hot. Remember these are the key things when setting up the breather side of your setup

1. Fat hoses reduce the velocity
2. Distance gives oil vapor more time to settle out of the air flow
3. Cooling helps oil/water vapor condense into liquid form
4. Baffling seperates oil/water vapor/liquid from air flow

Do that and you will stop puking oil and also prevent oil from gumming up your carb.
And this:
So I need to redesign my system now because I realized that it is causing a high idle. I've tested several other things and when I bypassed the big hoses, idle went back down. I know they're not leaking, I did a smoke test and fuel trims are single digits. I'm not sure why, I guess it's allowing too much air and the big hoses don't give enough resistance.

The funny thing is that it gets progressively worse over time so I was getting frustrated each time I would change something it would be somewhat normal and go back to idling high. (Changed iac, throttle blade, air filter, idle relearn about a dozen timesIt is now triggering p0507 (idle higher than commanded). The idle has been 1000-1200 rpm and the "idle coasting to stop" jumps up to like 1800. My gas mileage has been really bad too

And this:
So after doing some reading (stuff I've probably read before but glossed over) It seems there does need to be a restriction somewhat. If there is too much flow, it can raise the idle and act like a vacuum leak, without the fuel trims going crazy. So it seems I got some work to do, I'm going to add a clean side catch can.

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Old Jun 6, 2020 | 10:04 PM
  #56  
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I think the guys on the other forum are experimenting and havnt got all data points lined up.
the mm can has a pcv valve and also one way breather. If your road racing your at wot 50% of the time so lots of crank case pressure and if there sucking huge amounts of air in it has to go out.
I have no maf,and my set up is--------- 3/8 pipe after filter to (U.S) drivers side head(clean air in)------block off passenger side valve cover ---------dash30 oil fill to catch can------3/8 pcv valve(tapped to can) to valley cover---one way breather to top of can-----
When cruising This way you have clean air gets drawn into engine ,mixing with blowby, then drawn into can, oil mist/water condenses, leaving clean air to go out thru pcv to valley
At wot blow by increases to the point where the 3/8 pipe sizes cant evacuate and the one way breather opens venting to atmosphere. Even with dash 30 pipe going out to can i still get a drop or 2 of oil due to reversion back up clean air pipe--------In a month i may have 3/4inch oil/water in my can and intake manifold is absolutely clean


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Old Jun 7, 2020 | 09:23 AM
  #57  
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Our Gen 5+is the best separating can we have tested and we buy other brands all the time. I think that's special; also it has the unique crankcase pressure equalizing feature which is certainly special. Both of those things on top of level monitoring fitting upgradability and lifetime guarantee make it special made in USA makes it special.

For road circuit application larger ventilation requirements and the larger hoses are typically interfaced to the valve covers improperly resulting in extreme oil loss. It's very difficult not making our own valve covers yet to manage this for the customer. The best and safest route is to stick behind the factory baffling without a very specific and controlled plan of attack.

Originally Posted by JimMueller
If I use the recommended MM C5/C6 Mild kit, then the hose diameter (-6AN or 3/8) and hose routing (can inlet to LS3 valley cover (that has a built-in PCV), outlet to LS3 intake manifold) will remain the same as I'm using now based upon the MM installation guide. So if the hose size and routing is the same, what's so special about the MM can that makes it worth $300? The additional PCV in the can? It's not just MM.... Elite, and RX are even more expensive.

There is a similar PCV discussion happening on FRRAX (which is a F-body autocross/road race forum) regarding large amounts of oil in a catch can during HPDE events. Why is MM recommending -6AN and others say to run the largest hose possible? I'd certainly ask MM if I could talk to him directly.


And this:

And this:
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Old Jun 17, 2020 | 01:00 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by MIGHTYMOUSE
Our Gen 5+is the best separating can we have tested and we buy other brands all the time. I think that's special; also it has the unique crankcase pressure equalizing feature which is certainly special. Both of those things on top of level monitoring fitting upgradability and lifetime guarantee make it special made in USA makes it special.

For road circuit application larger ventilation requirements and the larger hoses are typically interfaced to the valve covers improperly resulting in extreme oil loss. It's very difficult not making our own valve covers yet to manage this for the customer. The best and safest route is to stick behind the factory baffling without a very specific and controlled plan of attack.
Dave, if you want me to buy your product, please call me at the number I've left in email and PMs. If I do not answer, leave a number at which I can call you back.
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