rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

I do in fact have money to burn, ask the first engine builder salesman! Now that part is clear and over with, can we skip it?
Lets make sure we are comparing apples to apples, im open for suggestions, but my constraints are as follows;
PD XR ls7 intake
Mast 285cc ls7 heads
pumpgas compression friendly, no e85 here! It must dyno on pump 92/93. No octane booster or other Tom Foolery please.
hydraulic roller

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

I dont have a particular problem with the stuff in my engine. Until I find out what failed and why. I took the advice of a confident trusted engine builder with credentials. Im over him and everything in this motor until proven otherwise. Im not against keeping any of it or all of it. I doubt the next builder will want to tho. We ll see. But he will have to back up his claims/promises on engine dyno before it leaves or Im not paying for shyt. No more bs, my money was/is green. Put up or shut up time! Remember Street car in 2020, not 2002. Anyone see whats out there lately? Not just on the Power Tour niether. Dont care if someone else thinks its to much power. Thats in the eye of the beholder, my right foot, and my wallet. Nobody wants less hp! Ever! Except for Hio, but he s on a whole other level of thought, n backs it up.

Darth_V8r

iTrader: (4)

I agree with you here. Earlier on, I was thinking HG and send it, but you've lost faith in the engine. So, I kinda look at it like and say you might as well do all the stuff you compromised on before. With twin 102's, i wouldn't think your intake would be restrictive at all. I was genuinely excited to see what that intake would do with those long runners and all that throttle area.

No, 750 hp pump gas is not unreasonable. You can safely push 93 to 12.3 without boostane if the heads are good and the cam is big, which yours will be.

And you're right. you really don't pay for cubes like you used to.

Not sure if you're making fun of me here or not, lol. Both chassis dyno guys said i'd be well over 800 on an engine dyno. "You're all over 800" was the exact quote fromt he first dyno. Guys were coming over from the shop and taking selfies with the car. And I know a CID and 4500 would make even more, but I just don't want to cut up anything.

What is the installed height on your valves?

LSX67RS/SS

Here's my formula for pump gas 750HP at 11.5:1 28 degrees at WOT...not relatively cheap but very dependable.LSX block

454 displacement redline at 7100rpm

Forged Callies Callie 5PU31T-MG Magnum LSA Crankshaft S/N127537

1000 Weisco pistons

Callies, CHM750 Heavy Metal - .750x1.175

Bullet Cam 246/258 .639”/.639” 113

LS7 rockers modified by CHE

WCCH Heads Brodix BR7 275cc/99cc heads

Mast 4500 intake

4500 Acufab TB

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Good call on not reusing the block/heads until you know root cause. We don't want you on suicide watch should you reuse something that was part of the issue. Intake reuse shouldn't be a problem though if you like it and are married to it. I like your stance, it's your money, spend if it you want to regardless of bang for the buck and $/hp. Unless someone else is planning to foot the bill, do what you want and enjoy your own build.

440_Stroker

Streetable is a relative term. To some an engine has horrible characteristics and to someone else it's not bad. My 440 stroker is in that power range (spec'd by Tony Mamo) you're referencing but it wasn't cheap, that I can attest to. If I had gone with just HCI on the stock 5.7 I would be building a 9.0 for my other car but I wouldn't have been happy with my SS.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Yup. The purpose of this thread was to see what people thought about big(ger) cube engines. What makes one guy pick 434ci, 440ci, 454ci. With what parts and goals? Is a stroker still on borrowed time from the day it fires off due to excessive wear? Is there value to going with less cubes and high revs? All things im not an expert on honestly. Was trying to create a discussion. I was fully ready to drop a 7k-8k deposit on a new motor just to get away from this one and its aforementioned parts list. I figured buy the time we tore it down and had it gone thru, how would another builder really look at it all and say, "Wow, perfect build, this is exactly what I would have done too". "Lets just fix it and keep it moving". I ve yet to see many agree on the same parts/build combinations. I was preparing myself for that n figured id just cut my losses, order new motor(dyno'd), and wait to pull old one out with new one right beside it. In a long weekend kinda deal. Keep the misery down to a minimum. Than, in the future I could do whatever with the other pile of shyt motor on a stand. Rebuild it, sell it, part it, etc. All while enjoying my car already. Now, im willing to let another builder tear it down n tell me whats what. And where we can go from here kinda thing. Thats most logical. Even tho im sure it ll still cost me more time and plague me til the day new parts go in it.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

I call BS on the stroker wear myth unless it's over 4 inches. I don't have experience with the 4.125/4.25 stuff.

440_Stroker

There are factors but I agree. Quality components and using them within their designed parameters let's them live a lot longer. The longer stroke can cause instability at the bottom but I believe there are ways to combat that aspect.

Big cube engines are fun to drive.

I'm west of Orlando about 40 minutes. You're south of Orlando, correct?

Mickyinks

These sort of builds can be frustrating. They take time to sort out properly. Id be pulling the heads myself before sending it off, you may only need new head gaskets.
If one banks afr was different to the other its possible one head gasket was on its way out and it was sucking air thru head gasket before it worked its way to coolant passage.
No good throwing the splash around if its only that. .
You have quality parts, pull the heads , put some cometic mlx head gaskets on and see how it goes. May save you lots of time and money.
Otherwise go as many cubes possible, theres no replacement for displacement.

bortous

One of the reasons I left my engine at a 4 inch stroke also.
Good points.

Mickyinks

The after market blocks have longer sleeves so a 4.125 crank isnt an issue. I think the rhs blocks have the longest sleeves of the after market blocks

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

My turbo 383 was a 4 inch stroke and was ran over 10k hard turbo miles, then went through multiple owners after me until someone decided to wrap the car around a pole....the motor was still good so the guy sold the drivetrain to someone else who was putting it into another car in another state. Always clean oil changes no glitter. Can't speak to any of the larger stroke stuff, but Erik Koenig did tell me the custom Wiseco pistons did help with that rocking in the bottom of the bore. Maybe it was offset wrist pins or something like that? Not an engine expert though.

Yes, I'm south of O town.

Mickyinks

These are JE pistons in mine, designed for it

MixedE36

The RHS block does have longer sleeves, so not that much of a worry.

There is most likely more wear on a longer stroke engine (4.125), but I wouldn't call them unreliable. The increased wear is probably minimal. *I'm not an expert. I would recommend discussing with a reputable engine builder.

Once you have to bore your block, the components cost about the same. The cost to take my LS3 block from 376 to 416 or 427 was about the same. I didn't inquire going to 440 or 468 due to my assertion of reliability.

440_Stroker

I'm at 4.185 with a 4" stroke. If they wear out and I need new sleeves.....so be it.

Corona

Darth that wasn't a jab...I just know what you were asking and after the problem and a rebuild 440 makes the number asked or wanted that much easier...
Rup once you break down everything you see what's good and what's not and work from there ☺️....If the bored are good as well as the pistons keep'em. Crank needs a little love on maybe the journals easy fix... What your asking for is done in the sleep of all builders listed. Added note 750 with a factory Ls7 has been done for Years ...With a factory intake BTW. You got better stuff as is so it's that much Easier 😉👍. Typical anything can be fixed cheaper than going out & buying...Even if you got it to Burn

tblentrprz

OP, looks like you're moving in the right direction:
Connect with a reputable engine builder (One that's built many engines like you desire and knows exactly what it takes - Chad sounds like a knowledgeable guy based on wanting to clearly understand what happened with previous engine, don't know of him personally)
I'd suggest, provide builder with your goals and expectations of new build, in writing.
Let the engine builder tell you all the details of what he'd recommend or do and why (since he's the professional). He should know what's the best bang for the buck!
Highly recommend getting a complete build sheet that includes parts list, machined/build tolerances, dyno data, etc. with engine delivery (as a baseline/reference for your engine program)

Hope you figure out the root issues of previous build. Don't need to repeat that deal.

Tony @ Mamo Motorsports

Guys,

Regarding stroke vs sleeve length and reliability etc. a couple of things come to mind

While the worst situation is an LS2 or LS3 block converted to a stroker (4" or larger arm), there are hundreds....thousands in fact out in the real world running fine and some that have quite a few miles on the odometer.

Is this a good build plan for a performance engine you want to see 50,000 miles or more.....certainly not. The OEM blocks have short cylinder sleeves and the added stroke means your pulling the piston further out of the hole at BDC (by the difference in the stroke....about 3/8 of an inch with a 4" arm), so you will get more piston rock and wear at BDC....and this is exaggerated even more in 4.100 stroke stock block combo which I typically stay away from.

The way you set up the engine (mainly regarding paying attention to piston to wall clearance) will have alot to do with the expected service life of the build before oil consumption and power loss creep in from worn piston skirts etc. but a properly built combo like Im discussing here will run well for quite a few miles (20-35K I would estimate based on the combo and RPM typically seen). That might be 10 years of ownership in a part time hot rod.

When you get into most aftermarket blocks (and ductile iron sleeved OEM blocks), you get a big benefit of a much longer cylinder sleeve.....5.750 - 5.800 long versus 5.500 - 5.550 for an OEM stock block.

Soooo.....now with a 4" arm your only pulling the piston another 1/8" out of the hole at BDC and even a 4.125 stroke crank is only pulling the piston out of the sleeve an additional 1/4".....that really helps better support the piston at BDC so less rock equals less wear and better longevity with probably a slight gain in power seen from reduced internal friction (from less piston rock at the enormous speeds the crank is spinning)

Most enthusiasts put alot less miles on their hot rods than their regular cars....I know some of you daily them and even that is fine with OEM blocks with stroker cranks but know going in this isn't a build your planning on OEM type life expectancy....that's just not realistic and it would mean a hell of alot of spring freshen ups also.....LOL


No real voodoo going on here....pay attention to clearances and keeping them on the tighter side of nominal and your 4" arm in your factory sleeved LS2 or LS3 block will run hard a long time but if you had more budget a sleeved block gets you a larger bore.....a larger motor and a longer life expectancy due to the longer sleeve length it provides and better support of the piston at BDC

Hope this helps

-Tony

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Ok, so silly question, what are the capabilities of the standard deck RHS block as it sits? Sleeves?
One thing for sure is, im not getting anything built by anyone unless they have the ability to engine dyno it. Im so convinced my motor was eff'd the day we started it. I know it wouldnt have survived a dyno. In other words, if it isnt running right, you tear it down n fix it! If it dyno s significantly lower than what was promised, you tear it down and fix it! For this kinda money, im pulling out all stops and calling bs on anything and everything before it even leaves the shop. I ve been watchn blame get placed and passed along from components, to tunes, to my ebay key blank that started the car, since June. No more! It wasted A LOT of time and energy. I bought multiple parts twice, tested some of the dumbest theories I ve ever heard of(who remembers my parallel vs. series fuel rail thread), had to make multiple phone calls to "professionals" whom I literally listened while they contradicted themselves...all this for a head n cam 427ci? Bull Shyt!!! And the whole time, I knew in my heart, instinctively, something else was wrong. Im tired and embarrassed. Im about 20min away from still possibly sayn screw this motor and just ordering a new long block from scratch. I ll be driving my car sooner and confidently if I can decide on a long block. Than on a rainy day, if I feel like it, i ll have a look see about this one on my engine stand covered in shop rags...if I feel like it and motivated in proper. Until than, I mite just let it sit there! Im doing my research and trying to make a good decision first.
The only good thing that has come out of all of this, I learned a lot via my long summer of troubleshooting and chasing my tail. So again, I present to ya my dilemma, new motor, old motor, who cares...More cubes or not? And why? If so, 434ci, 440ci, 454ci? What do you like about it? What do you dislike about it? Im 100% staying with an aluminum block and my Carbon fiber XR ls7 crossram intake. Im not opose to keeping/ditching my heads or anything else if it makes sense. 720-730hp is my goal with pump gas, hydraulic roller
750hp-even better. Dont forget im paying big hp tax thru my 4l80e and fab 9". 550rwhp is meh, ok...600rwhp, now we re talking.