Currently have a 4th gen thats fully built, drivetrain can handle 700rwhp very conservative rating, has a RED 427 in it, big cam mamo ls7 heads mamo msd etc......makes decent power.

so i should be ready to at least buy the vette in 6 weeks or so. im currently watching whats out there and for how much......ok time for the generation IV internal thread stuff.....

the goals of this are goona be a little dumb, but im pretty darn certain i want titanium rods. when i think of c6 i think of the ls7, and then think of a quick revving titanium rod car. i also want to shift at 7800 rpm. i also have 94 octane now readily available so can do a fairly safe 12.4-12.7ish compression. will definately be a LLSR motor. also would like to get 15,000 miles at least out of the bottom end. FOR NOW LETS STRICTLY TALK ABOUT SHORTBLOCK RELATED STUFF.....NO VALVETRAIN!!!!!

the reason i bring all the previous stuff up because all 3 will involve me removing the mamo top end from the camaro to put on the c6, and the camaro will get the factory ls7 heads i removed, ported of course, and get the stock ls7 intake maybe ported idk.

1) buy an under 25,000 miles c6z, take the mamo heads and intake and swap that from the camaro to the c6, mill heads to get my compression up. few concerns, modding an ls7 with miles on it, ls7 sleeves, compression limits with stock compression/PTV clearance, certainly cheapest easiest option.

2)buy a basically any mile c6z or grand sport, still under 50,000 probably, still want it in as great of shape as possible, buy a new dry sump gm ls7 crate engine and basically strip it down to a shortblock. this seems to be the most cost effective way of getting a titanium rod thats new and has been tested for miles and miles to be used in an OEM configuration. i like the thought of using gm ls7 rods for this reason where aftermarket ones arent exactly made to last XXX miles. i then sell off the top end and wont get back much money, so will probably have a $9000 gm shortblock.....doesnt seem cost effective, however a grandsport can be had for 7-9000 less than a c6z which would even things out. sell the motor that came in the car, would get maybe 2500-4000 depending on miles ls3/ls7. so thats like 10000 which would give me a free new gm shortblock. still have the ls7 sleeve concerns.

3)go the expensive route, buy a c6z or grandsport, ignore miles go strictly on overall condition and get another sleeved block, appropriate pistons for compression, shop around for aftermarket titanium rods, or some sort of lightweight steel rod which wont exist.

it really comes down to if you can get 12.5 to 12.7 compression out of a stock ls7 with a cam id imagine will be close to .700 valve lift? if not that pretty much sums up what needs to be done......and of the ls7 rod coating failures ive seen, seems to occur more when people swap pistons or do other things to the bottom end.....thats why im leaning towards options that dont involve touching the SBE.

 

It’s not what you want to hear, but I wouldn’t use Titanium rods. Even OEM rods are problematic. They loose coating and slowly kill LS7.
If you want quick revving engine, instead of titanium rods, get lightweight clutch like MMS RPS BC2. ​​​​​

 

lol i yea i know its not what i want to hear . Also was pretty certain no one would recommend building a new motor with titanium rods. The rps will 99 percent be going in even before the motor stuff to get it broken in.

its not even entirely about the quick revving. I know ots dumb but i just want titanium rods once. Because after i do it once i wont want it again.

 

Ok, just my thoughts, but I have the same build idea in mind for my next motor. Here is what I suggest:

1) No, dont even build on a stock LS7 shortblock. JMO, majority are timebombs. Bad rod/cracked sleeve, something is bound to happen.

2) See above answer.

3) Do a sleeved block, or go big and get a Dart Alum block. Forget the Ti rods, totally bad idea. If you want light, get some Carrillo Pro A beams w/ some Diamond pistons and wow. It'll hang at 8k all day with no toilet paper involved, lol. Get a real crank also, not china ****. That's just the bottom end. I wuld get better heads, either MBE ported Brodix BS7's or go big and get some CID Greg Good LS7's(best bolt on head on the market). Either will really rock n roll on your combo. The intake is another make/break decision point. At that rpm, I would look at the FED or Shaun's custom alloy, that is another out there w/ twin inlet, forgot the name. It's all $$$, but just dont throw it away on a stock LS7 block.

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I'll say this... I was in the same quandry when I built the 440. I was advised by some serious players to ditch the OE Ti rods. Also by rod manufactureres, but at first I thought that the rod makers were trying to sell rods.

But then I learned stiffness>weight reduction for power generation. A stiffer rod will transfer more force to the crank and absorb less.

The other issue is this -- say you break one and decide OK, no more Ti rods. So you go get new rods. Your crank balance is now effed, and you'll need to pull the crank to add mallory ot the bob weights. My advice is to find a vendor like Molnar to get the crank and rods from, and make sure the bob weights are heavy, so you're drilling out mallory vs trying to add it. Way cheaper that way.

Pissed ons, on the other hand, shop around and get the lightest you can get. The way the weight works on your bob weights is you use the piston weights plus HALF the rod weight. You gain less with heavier rods than with heavier pissed ons, if that makes sense. Sorta like the valve train. Gimme a way too heavy pushrod and the lightest possible valve. The market for 434 pistons is around 500 grams. If you can get that down into the 430's (you can, but you need to call in sometimes to find those), that's as good as saving 140 grams off your rods. Or will offset going to 600g rods that will fundamentally be bulletproof.

That's my advice for a build-it-once

 

Makes sense darth, out of curiosity one question i still need amswered, can u get 12.5 to 12.7 compression out of a SBE ls7 with a pushing .70p valve lift cam

 

Yes you can. 100%. the factory pistons have pretty big reliefs in them. And max lift really doesn't matter for PTV. It's duration - and really most particularly overlap - that affects PTV.

 

so we will let fate decide then. if i can find a blown up c6z ill build something new, if not ill just mod the ls7 and see how it goes

 

any idea on what the weight of these carillo rods are

 

Give me a bit and will send you the link for them. They were in the low 500g's if I remember right. I was shocked they were as light as they are. This was the 6.125 length, btw.

 

sounds good. i talked to my builder as well. told him to see if he could find a lighter than usual rods and pistons with a crank for under 4000.......

basically would just like a rods/pistons combo thats 10% or more lighter than ur typical entry level aftermarket rods/piston combos....

 

I'm in the stubborn learn by doing camp. Most recommend ditching anything factory LS7 these days. Block is weak, Ti rods fail, stock valves fail, valve guides wear out, stock oil pump sucks etc etc. I'm trying to collect cranks and rods as I can find them for cheap...ride the wave of people thinking they're trash. So far I'm building one, and I have another set of crank and rods in good shape on the shelf just in inventory.

If I did an LS7 again it would be SBE including stock pistons or I'd start with a sleeved block. SBE has gone 8's NA, and if you have detonation in a stock block a sleeve cracks anyway so I think there's not a huge reason to get forged pistons if you still have the weak link of the sleeves (other than a cracked sleeve can be re-sleeved, but a broken piston usually means a new engine entirely). I'll see what my experience is with the Ti rods if I ever get my engine built. I doubt there's really an advantage to the Ti rods and I hope it doesn't bite me later. Yes I still think they're way cooler than a steel rod and you're not going to change my mind haha!

 

seems like they do decent in a SBE form but seem iffy when removed

 

so im goona get another sleeved block from red, no idea on rotating assembly yet for sure, just like that lighter piston idea for sure tho. most likely running a real stage 3 or 4 dry sump and getting oil pump off crank, will create a little vacuum thAT will help in the upper rpms. the vette im getting has mast 285s, could run them on the new motor, however the mamo heads already have the crower rockers for the solid roller.....so leaning on running them with a short runner msd, and either selling the mast or running them on my other 427.....those things seem to work well past 7200 rpms.

 

Mast & TFS Ls7 heads Hmmmmm? I've got a old build & a newer Build that Shows there's No Major Difference in power. One is just more of A Race casting + on cost. Have a Look and there's No Major Difference on the Builds used.

From 11yrs ago. LS7 cam 246/260-at-0.050 hydraulic cam
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/project-cars/1101chp-mast-motorsports-ls7-crate-motor/

2016 and a 6 Yr difference.
BTR LS7 - N/A STAGE 4 Specs: 247/258 650/630 112+3

https://www.streetmusclemag.com/tech-stories/tfs-family-feud-cathedral-vs-ls7-head-test/

 

thats still an out of the box tfs 260.......pretty well kniown they are kinda a turd.

most likely goons give the mamo heads a shot since A.....i wanna swap lifters in my old motor meaning heads coming off anyway.....and B.....i already have the shaft mounts for TFS heads.

 

I see u have Both....goes to Show There More Similar than Different in terms of Performance OTB.
Also see that yours Are Special with Mamo work.

I know a Guy also who does a little something with a TFS head Also.

 

I always heard the major reliability issue with those engines were specifically the Titanium rods....most people seem to take them out. Then theres the fact you'll always see 6 or 7 of them pop up for sale here and there....think about that for a minute. I'd agree with the above guys...bad idea. Unless you just have really deep pockets and money doesnt matter to you if you lose an expensive engine.

 

I call that a TIME BOMB....
Putting something in an engine just to say you wanted to do it once, in spite of all logic against it, is pure foolhardy.
There is nothing magic about titanium rods, and no cache' associated with them
Nobody will think you are "extra cool" for running them.
GM made a mistake. Don't be like GM.

 

yea i had the titanium rod thought for not very long. The carillo a are light enough