New GMPP LSX Block
Originally Posted by GMPP
Between the extra bore wall thickness, and the 6-bolts per cylinder, this new block will handle significantly more boost than the W2W project engine.
hell, even its made from nodular iron, like the stock ones
dont even have to be forged.
Sorry, I changed my opinion again I don't want to build up engine that consists of : ported GM LS7 heads, custom mid range camshaft, ported GM LS7 intake manifold, GMPP LSX block, 4.000" stroke eagle crank,6.125" Scat I-beam rods, 4.125" Diamond forged -2cc valve releifs pistons, Clevite H Main Bearings, Clevite H Rod Bearings and good brand's piston rings.
Last edited by Abdullah; Aug 21, 2006 at 01:58 PM.
Guys, remember that the LS motor is going NASCAR racing in Busch North so GM has to make some GMPP stuff like blocks and heads. GM has been pushing this motor platform forward in racing circles (Daytona Prototype, Speed World Challenge, Busch North, ALMS) and if the design of the heads on the LS7 is any indication, not to mention the C5R stuff looking like Sb2.2 stuff internally then it may turn into the new Chevy Nextel Cup motor a while down the road. Who knows there, they never approved the ROX block for Cup racing, which was a bonehead manuver but whatever.
A $2,000 GMPP Bowtie style block is a killer deal.
Bret
A $2,000 GMPP Bowtie style block is a killer deal.
Bret
TECH Resident
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From: TAMPA by way of MIAMI!!!
Yes $2K for a bowtie style block is fantastic but most of us want ALUMINUM so I'm just hoping the price is still reasonable. Aluminum for about $3K and able to do a 4.2" bore........... If that is possible.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: under the hood
Originally Posted by firefighter
Yes $2K for a bowtie style block is fantastic but most of us want ALUMINUM so I'm just hoping the price is still reasonable. Aluminum for about $3K and able to do a 4.2" bore........... If that is possible.
I'm guessing it's Iron becuase the stock blocks do a fair job handling decent power, and also because aluminum blocks are quite exxpensive to make in aftermarket form.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: under the hood
Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
Just a question, how do you have more bore wall thickness with the same bore spacing? NOT being a smart ***.
I'm guessing that the od of the bore walls on the thrust side give a minimum of .150" (wall thickness between the bores at 4.250" bore) if you can really bore it to 4.250. 4.250 + .300 (2 times the wall thickness) would be 4.55" od. That's huge! I believe W2W used an iron 6.0L block for thier 1500hp buildup and I don't think the od. of those bores goes much beyond 4.25"
I can't wait to see one of these.... can't wait to punish my first one either!
BTW if anyone has seen the 6.0L block they are some beefy ****'s W2W's only trouble with that motor was lifting the heads and pressurizing the cooling system not any problems with block distortion. I'll have to put one of those 6.0L iron beasts on the scale at work, but for a non-siamease block that SOB is strong.
Bret
Bret
So the summary is:
-Iron block from GM, kinda of like a Bowtie LSx block
-Standard 4.125 bore? Just needs a hone?
-Different water jackets?
-Can use LS1 or LS2 or ??? crankshaft?
-Uses what cam and crank sensors?
-Stronger iron than the 6.0 blocks?
-Iron block from GM, kinda of like a Bowtie LSx block
-Standard 4.125 bore? Just needs a hone?
-Different water jackets?
-Can use LS1 or LS2 or ??? crankshaft?
-Uses what cam and crank sensors?
-Stronger iron than the 6.0 blocks?
TECH Resident
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From: TAMPA by way of MIAMI!!!
LSX Wizard, I have seen some one here (on this site) claim they cam do a 4.190" with their sleeves in a LS2 block. I was thinking that all of that was pretty close on the 4.4" bore spacing. But I am kinda hoping it will be possible with the new blocks. Otherwise just buy the LS7 it's allready 3K and you can do a cleanup hone on the 4.125" what 10-20 thousandths? So I'm hoping they have got some "kryptonite" cylinders and maybe you can get a little more bore out of them. We'll see what happens. It will prolly take too long for me and I'll just use a sleeved block for my swap.
Originally Posted by LSX Wizard
Firefighter, you'll never be able (yeah, I know.... never say never) to put a 4.2" bore in an aluminum block with a 4.40" bore center and still have any sleeve material left. Max bore that I've seen is right around 4.17 in an aluminum block.... that's really pushing it.
I'm guessing it's Iron becuase the stock blocks do a fair job handling decent power, and also because aluminum blocks are quite exxpensive to make in aftermarket form.
I'm guessing it's Iron becuase the stock blocks do a fair job handling decent power, and also because aluminum blocks are quite exxpensive to make in aftermarket form.
Staging Lane
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From: under the hood
Originally Posted by firefighter
LSX Wizard, I have seen some one here (on this site) claim they cam do a 4.190" with their sleeves in a LS2 block. I was thinking that all of that was pretty close on the 4.4" bore spacing. But I am kinda hoping it will be possible with the new blocks.
Originally Posted by 383ss
a sponsor on here will do a 4.1875 dry sleeve and 4.200 wet sleeve ls1 block.
Now this assumes you want to have any kind of wall thickness to your bores, which now causes some issues (maybe only for me, but I'm sure also for others that know how to make reliable, serious power). If you have .100" walls, now you have no original material (also known as "parent material") between bores. In an iron block that is relatively strong (as compared to an aluminum one) you can get away with less material between bore and still maintain strength, however, if you remove this material from an iron, let alone an aluminum version, and create a wet sleave condition, you have lost a tremndous percentage of strength. Anyone in thier right mind would avoid this situation.
I'm quite sure this is why the World aluminum block is only advertised to go 4.125, they know the limitations of how far to intelligently go with bores and sleeves. They allow for a couple rebores before you have to replace sleeves.
IMHO the only reason we need large bore LS blocks like this made in CAST IRON is because that's what the boys down in NC need to run in those roundy round cars. The similarity between the LS7/L92 style heads and SB2.2 heads in general design and the fact that you could make these things a canted valve design with a little help says GM is fishing the LS motor to take over for the oldschool SBC with the current NASCAR parts on it.
Bret
Bret
8 Second Club
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From: detroit, Mi
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
IMHO the only reason we need large bore LS blocks like this made in CAST IRON is because that's what the boys down in NC need to run in those roundy round cars. The similarity between the LS7/L92 style heads and SB2.2 heads in general design and the fact that you could make these things a canted valve design with a little help says GM is fishing the LS motor to take over for the oldschool SBC with the current NASCAR parts on it.
Bret
Bret
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
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Here is the FEA analisis of the 4.202" bore in the 500CI motor S.A.M. is working with. They already made over 900 HP with a 250 nitrous shot on the pump gas mild street build. I see the sheet metal intake is finished, so the stock intake and throttle body are going away.
http://www.erlperformance.com/techbr...eve_Design.pdf
The sleeves are "siamese" at the upper cylinder where all the cylinder pressure is. Max distortion of .001" (@ well over 1000 HP,1200 Ft/LB torque, 600 shot of nitrous) occurs around 90 degrees ATDC, well down in the cylinder. The sleeves are Ductile iron (over 110K psi Tensile) and states the cast iron (40K tensile) would be an issue at the same cylinder pressures and wall thickness.
http://www.erlperformance.com/techbr...eve_Design.pdf
The sleeves are "siamese" at the upper cylinder where all the cylinder pressure is. Max distortion of .001" (@ well over 1000 HP,1200 Ft/LB torque, 600 shot of nitrous) occurs around 90 degrees ATDC, well down in the cylinder. The sleeves are Ductile iron (over 110K psi Tensile) and states the cast iron (40K tensile) would be an issue at the same cylinder pressures and wall thickness.
On The Tree
Joined: May 2006
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The boy in NC have already submitted a new engine to the guys running the show. They are saying they need to keep up with Toyota and their cup engine is way ahead of everyone else already.
They also have a "Spec" LS based engine coming out for one of their touring circle track series.
They also have a "Spec" LS based engine coming out for one of their touring circle track series.
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Texas
Well, the possibilities here are endless. This opens the door not only for development at the highest level (read that as Cup teams), but the net effect is that racing improves the breed. That means we (as the end users) get access to better and better products. Look at the current surplus parts (like rods and sb2.2 stuff) you can buy from cup teams. Imagine being able to buy ls specific hard parts from your favorite (or heck even un-favorite teams).
"Uncle Robin", welcome to the site. Your exploits in the Ford world are well known, and your prescence along with your info and insight is greatly appreciated.
"Uncle Robin", welcome to the site. Your exploits in the Ford world are well known, and your prescence along with your info and insight is greatly appreciated.