Stroker396@APF

iTrader: (18)

The Dyno has been postphoned until we get caught up with a couple of international backorders.

The LS7 test mule engine is ready. As soon as those orders go out we will have the short block sent to us and test it with stock LS7 heads for a baseline and then with the 32V heads.

since we will be going for Max HP we will be using an 8 Throttle body intake.

Intstallation into a F-body or Y-body will follow.

Cheatin' Chad

iTrader: (3)

hmmmmm

HOHN

It's simply not the case. Compare a DOHC head to a a typical OHV head and the valves are lighter relative to flow. That's the key-- relative to flow. Sure, you might get 400cfm from an OHV setup, but you have to have a huge valve and open it a mile to do so. Dividing this flow between two smaller valves means a much lighter valvetrain that it more easily controlled at high rpm. The 4v head will also breathe better because the valves occupy a greater portion of the bore's area.

That's why they are better for racing, because it's less weight to move a given CFM. Less weight for a given CFM means more RPM-- and that means more HP!

Ironically, 5V heads are the peak of breathing, once you go to a 6V design, the valve area actually goes down. So it's not just a case of "more is better".

HOHN

Another issue to consider is pushrod action in transmitting harmonics to the valvetrain. A really stout, rigid pr also transmits vibrations badly.

An ideal pushrod not only is hi fatigue strength, rigid and lightweight--but also would be acoustically dead, like it would make a dull thud instead of a sharp ping when hammered.

The NASCAR boys have been experimenting with MMC pushrods (metal matrix composite) that use an aluminum filler over a matrix of aluminum oxide/ceramic fibers.

IMO, a well-done carbon or carbon fiber composite pushrod would be ideal-- rigid, light, and super damping.

jh

jmdale1984

iTrader: (6)

Why does everyone feel the need to knock this before we see results? With the way GM is pumping out high hp, efficient V8's, I could see them following suit to a 4 valve head. The original prototype LS7 had twin in block cams, and was promising back in ~2002. They abandoned that idea, I don't know why, but maybe someone here could tell me.

Anyways, everyone here wants more power, right?

This may be a way to accomplish that. They aren't spending your tax money or anything, so let 'em have at it. I'm anxious to see the results. Looks like a great setup... no custom manifolds, cams, or headers required.

I think the pricetag would need to fall a long ways to be finding loving homes in a lot of LS cars... but that's a decision the company will have to make for itself. Reviving their customer service is a first step, and bringing the cost down to a tolerable level should be their next (if Henry Ford taught us anything).

You all act like this everytime a new idea is presented. I'm sure many people like you were just as critical with the introduction of TPI, DIS, and everything else that has made LSx motors so great.

Sit back, enjoy the effort, and if you don't like it... noone's gonna make you swap them out with your 2v heads.

jmdale1984

iTrader: (6)

That's like saying "How does a 325hp F-Body beat a lighter 325hp Impreza?". The peak numbers aren't the only numbers.

Old SStroker

You make an excellent point.

Rotating parts of the Aaro rocker arms are ~400 gm. LS7 stock steel rockers are ~140 gm total with the rotating mass considerably less. Unless you use very light vaves, springs and retainers as well as rocker arms, the pushrod and lifter loads are going to be a problem.

gun5l1ng3r

You will be using the 8 throttle body setup on the Baseline LS7, right?

If not, you are wasting your time with this crowd. The switch to a 8TB intake is worth a decent amount of HP by itself.

Stroker396@APF

iTrader: (18)

Of course have to compare apples to apples. I have also pushed to get a stock LS7 intake & TB to test on both setups as well. The guys here will take one look at those stacks and scream that it won't fit on their car Short of a 4" cowl induction

Here is a preview. The ones we use will have the LS7 ports (not the cathedral pictures here) Notice the notch available for a second set of injectors if a n2o shot is desired.

Also here is a set of these heads installed on a 69 Camaro. In the last shot you can see my ride in the background. There is another 396 F body w/an LT1 running these heads coming out from texas for a dyno tune. I hope to get some pics and video of it.

Cheers,

Stroker396@APF

iTrader: (18)

I regret to announce that I will no longer be working with Arao Engineering or Russ. He has proven his critics correct. Despite my best efforts I have had a difficult time in communicating with him. I tried very hard to help take of some orders that preceded my involvement with the company to no avail. I was even lied to on one occasion which was enough to seal the deal.

Russ seems to be bombarded by people stopping in his shop daily and seems to concern himself with the work that is in front of him. In otherwords with all the local speed shops nearby, if a client drops of a car for an install that seems to be his concern and priority.

Upon my last visit all the valvetrain components were in the process of being manufactured for the LS series heads and likely the first 5 to 10 sets will be completed and ready to be sold and shipped in several months.

I would recommend to anyone wishing to purchase a set of these heads to do so through another source such as Nelson who is 1. close by and can insure progress 2. can be trusted.

The product is bar none the best on the market, however the company is lacking in customer service and delivery.

$ho_tyme

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the up front honesty, with that said


These heads are sure to do some cool stuff and have a cool factor to them and as stated before the people buying them money is not a option. But for me"common broke man" it is nice to know that if something goes real bad with my l92 heads I can order a fewparts and have them tha week,or if real bad just another head without breaking the bank.

But I would like to see a set of those ITB stacks shortened and put on some LS based heads

R67Chevelle

Im sorry to hear about this. You have put alot of hard work and effort with integrity and honesty. Its sad that such a great product has such poor respect and managment of their own business. Great employees in the corporate world are expendable in the corporate eyes, but reality tells a different story. I will be putting my LSX build on hold as it the head and probably go World or AFR instead.... You were the one who gave the confidence that you would deliver not Ar*o. You took alot of flack in the beginning on this board and I will tell you if anything you earned my respect... I bet that alot of others on this board would agree... Keep us informed on what you will be doing and many blessings to you...

Blessings,

Stroker396@APF

iTrader: (18)

Thanks,

I did finally speak to Russ today. He still really wants to work with me. The situation is exactly as I described it. He has all the valvetrain compoents manufactured and is starting on Billet heads as well as doing the local projects for customers.

I also asked about the international customers orders, for which he claims slow progress is being made. His "ostrich" approach is the most frustrating part of his personality. Russ is actually a nice guy and pretty easy going. But does not deal well with stress.

I told him to prove to me, that he is serious by getting something done. Get the orders delivered to those customers.

I also said I would only sell product if it was ready to ship. That I would take a picture of it with me holding it completed for the customer.

This was never my primary job. I am in sales and it would be a nice synergy for Arao.

Since I have to see Russ one more time (July16th likely) to return his sample I guess he has until then.

R67Chevelle

I really hope this could be worked out. It seems Russ has challenges and you have the ability to help sole these situations... Arao makes a great product, but without decent service and product being complete for delivery, success is a challenge... Let us know....

Blessings,

Stroker396@APF

iTrader: (18)

Yes, I really hate to see a product like this flounder for this reason.

I really hate being lied to though. I believe you do what you say and I try to live by that. I have many long term customers that would not be dealing with me if I BS them.

I know there are several people like yourself out there that are interested in this product and I don't want to abandon them. But I can only do so much, I hope Russ comes through.

Old SStroker

No offense, HOHN but you haven't measured the weights of the valvetrain parts of these heads, or other versions, have you? As I noted above, the rotating mass of the rockers is nearly 4 times that of an LS7 rocker, and the rotational moment of inertial is not nice. Part of that is the 2 valves on one side of the rocker each with an adjuster, and one short arm on the other side with no adjuster. Unless the intakes are titanium, with 7 or 6 mm stems and the springs are beehives with Ti retainers, the valvetrain mass is huge compared to an LS7. IOW, it's MUCH heavier. And that's also "relative to flow".

Actually, the mechanical valvetrain parts don't give a fat rodent's butt (aka FRA) about flow when they create inertial loads during operation. All of that load needs to be controlled. Throwing spring at it, the common but wrong method, compounds the problem. It's a Catch-22. There are ways around it, but I don't see any of them showing up in these heads. Folks need to think out of the box (and have very deep pockets) to alleviate this problem.

If it were easy, we'd see lots of them. It ain't and we don't.

I suggest we'll see NA LS7 heads make considerably more power at considerably higher rpm than we will see from these 4V pushrod heads. More's the pity.

Jon

Red99C5

Chevy already tried the 4 valve head on the ZR-1. You saw how far that went.

DBL_TKE

Seemed to have worked pretty well. Unfortunately Chevy never tried a 4 valve head. Although Lotus and Murcury Cruiser did. Those LT-5 heads can get 400+ CFM after some porting.

LILS

Yeah, the DOHC LT5 from the ZR1 evolved into the Cadillac Northstar engines, and is still going strong. What was your point, and how does it relate to 32-valve pushrod engines?

2001CobaltSS

Only problem with this thread, I knew about this before, about months ago or maybe yr or so..... but.........

SHOW ME A CAR THAT IS RUNNING WITH THOSE HEADS?????? NOT EVEN AN LT1 WIHT THE HEADS HAVE RAN AND THEY DONT GIVE ANY OF THE PURCHASERS SUPPORT AS IN REPLACEMENT PARTS. WASTE OF MONEY!!!!