Convince me to build LS instead of BBC!!!
10.5 Dave, 7 sec's and 6 sec's rides have pleanty of down time, regardless. You know that, you see what everyone goes through. how often are they rebuilding, esp to be competitive. brakeage and rebuild are part of the game. Its even hard when you have the burden of the costs on your own shoulders.
With your numbers you should try for sonsorships
either way 7secs no matter how you look at it is hella fast , what makes it special to me and others is the fact it was with an LS series
With your numbers you should try for sonsorships
either way 7secs no matter how you look at it is hella fast , what makes it special to me and others is the fact it was with an LS series
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Can you list some examples of LSX aluminum Block failures. just the block and a part that broke that cracked the block. I know of one , which wasnt a failure so to speak. When W2W ( i think it was W2W, maybe it was Katech) tore down a motor that was in the 1400 FWHP range they noticed the mains started to walk and suggested putting a girld on to prevent that from happening.
And W2W gave me a quote for a 1,500 hp LSx engine, it was over $60,000..........NO WARRANTY at all.
A 1,500 hp 598ci with a Procharger from Fast Times Motorworks was $31,000. With a WARRANTY. And believe me, that BBC 598ci with the Procharger will last 10 times longer than a 1,400 hp LSx....that is a fact.
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TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
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From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
My Brodix Heads fully ported Peak at just a Tad over 580CFM.... good luck getting a LSanything head to flow that...... the canted valved heads are just a tad over 400 and won't be legal in any form of sportsman class racing without huge weight penalty's not to mention the crazy expensive valvetrain it takes to make them work.
Why do they think its just cubes that matter. If you can;t feed them, the cubes are useless. And there is no head available for the LSx engines that can feed a maxed out LSx engine.How much were your 580cfm Brodix heads?
The ETP CV heads are $10,000, complete.
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are you set on running a supercharger with your motor. Why not just do a 540 with a twin turbo setup. Would be a lot easier to control the power with an electronic controller. Especially when your roll racing and you have your supercharger belt off and cant the power you want when you could just hit a button and go from 6 to 16 psi
yes we all know W2W is expensive.
But give examples of block failure and not justblanket statements.
Your right 11 deg LSX head vs 18deg BBC head, flow numbers tells the whole story. which is more Efficient? which means less is more right? Bigger flow numbers doesnt mean better when it comes to VE.
And yes i would really like to know what and how these LSX aluminum block came apart.
But give examples of block failure and not justblanket statements.
Your right 11 deg LSX head vs 18deg BBC head, flow numbers tells the whole story. which is more Efficient? which means less is more right? Bigger flow numbers doesnt mean better when it comes to VE.
And yes i would really like to know what and how these LSX aluminum block came apart.
wow i missed alot.. i dont know where to start.. this is a great topic. good arguments back and forth.. i decided on a BB because it just drops right in and because a chevelle is fat the torque is needed.
the whole point of this thread is to see if it was worth the trouble to swap in an LS for my goals.
nobdody really went for or against this.. i dont want to go into the complexity of turbos... why are turbos the only way to go if I want multiple tunes. why can I not take off the blower belt (adjust wastegate for turbos) for my street tune and put my belt on (adjust wastegate for turbos) for strip tune?
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp).. if somebody sees a better way of doing this with a BB than a procharged 540 im all ears.. thats y im here.. for ideas and suggestions.. if a big nitrous shot is that much easier I would consider it..
Three pages and the first guy to even bring up this idea... I hear something about 650hp street tune and 1000hp track tune. Then I read some garbage about leaving the belt off the blower? How would that accomplish 650hp or even run right? That's a big airflow block when the blower is not spinning. I'm sure 1000hp would be cheaper and easier to make on a big inch BBC 540-632 cid. I like either idea personally. As long as it's a chevy motor. But turbos are the only way to go if you want to have multiple tunes ready to go and not use nitrous.
And gearhead are you trying to convince us or yourself what way is better? You seem stuck on the 540 procharged, Go with it. It will work either way you'll be happy.
And gearhead are you trying to convince us or yourself what way is better? You seem stuck on the 540 procharged, Go with it. It will work either way you'll be happy.
nobdody really went for or against this.. i dont want to go into the complexity of turbos... why are turbos the only way to go if I want multiple tunes. why can I not take off the blower belt (adjust wastegate for turbos) for my street tune and put my belt on (adjust wastegate for turbos) for strip tune?
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp).. if somebody sees a better way of doing this with a BB than a procharged 540 im all ears.. thats y im here.. for ideas and suggestions.. if a big nitrous shot is that much easier I would consider it..
Last edited by gearhead1186; Nov 6, 2007 at 08:18 PM.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
yes we all know W2W is expensive.
But give examples of block failure and not justblanket statements.
Your right 11 deg LSX head vs 18deg BBC head, flow numbers tells the whole story. which is more Efficient? which means less is more right? Bigger flow numbers doesnt mean better when it comes to VE.
And yes i would really like to know what and how these LSX aluminum block came apart.
But give examples of block failure and not justblanket statements.
Your right 11 deg LSX head vs 18deg BBC head, flow numbers tells the whole story. which is more Efficient? which means less is more right? Bigger flow numbers doesnt mean better when it comes to VE.
And yes i would really like to know what and how these LSX aluminum block came apart.
But when you have engines that are running at or close to their max potential, which is what you will have with a 1,000 HP LS1, LS6, LS2, LS7 block, you are decreasing the longevity and reliability.
With a BBC at 1,000 hp, its just getting started.
.
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 301
Likes: 20
FAST XFI fuel injection. This system will allow several different tunes (4 or 5, I can't remember) that can be changed with the touch of a button. Sip fuel on the highway, change tune for a lumpy badass street cruiser ride, drive to the strip and select double-throw-down kick *** tune and run your 9's, drive back home with a totally streetable tune. I know where there's a complete system coming off of a big block soon, PM me or email me at 81vette4speed@suddenlink.net for info, I'm sure it can be had for the right money.
But we are talking about a 9 second chevelle not a 6 second drag car. He only needs to make about 750hp to get into the 9s. All he really needs is a 9.5:1 383 with trickflow heads, a small solid roller, a th400, 4.10 gears and a full weight 71 chevelle(3600 with driver) will go 10.20 @ 136 on the first stage(250 shot) at a little over 7000rpm on a 28x12.50 et street. Now that setup was not making anywhere near 750hp. It was making more than 750 on the second stage but not much more and it was a fairly budget built 9 second daily driven street car. It takes even less to get an ls1 to run 9s. Big blocks are not needed to do.
But they are cooler. And easy to do it with.
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp).. if somebody sees a better way of doing this with a BB than a procharged 540 im all ears.. thats y im here.. for ideas and suggestions..
Making a reliable forged LSX motor that would get 550+ NA HP and withstand a 350 shot would be a piece of cake!
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
You can literally have a hand held pocket computer tucked inbetween your seats and pick it up and change the boost levels on the fly.
I spoke to Gayle Banks awhile ago, he's one of the top turbo engine builders on the planet. He has TT engines that make 1,600 hp, built for street use, that can be turned up and down while you're rolling to make 500 hp up to 1,600 hp. It simply operates the waste gates via pocket computer.
The blower will than block the air for your street tune and it would run horrible. I don't think is done.
Twin turbo or big single turbo will do it. You don't ever touch the belts, you just pick up your hand held computer and push a couple buttons.
Look at this: 522 BBC Twin Turbo. 2,000 hp with boost controller turned up....1,000 hp with it turned down. You can do the same thing with a 1,000 hp TT BBC, turn it down to 700-800 whenever you want. This guy is the king of TT engines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOOK06UrZs
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I spoke to Gayle Banks awhile ago, he's one of the top turbo engine builders on the planet. He has TT engines that make 1,600 hp, built for street use, that can be turned up and down while you're rolling to make 500 hp up to 1,600 hp. It simply operates the waste gates via pocket computer.
why can I not take off the blower belt (adjust wastegate for turbos) for my street tune and put my belt on (adjust wastegate for turbos) for strip tune?
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp)..
Look at this: 522 BBC Twin Turbo. 2,000 hp with boost controller turned up....1,000 hp with it turned down. You can do the same thing with a 1,000 hp TT BBC, turn it down to 700-800 whenever you want. This guy is the king of TT engines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUOOK06UrZs
.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
gearhead,
Screw it. Get a GM LSX iron block if you do choose to push one to 1,000 hp. You can have it drive VERY VERY nice on the street and be sitting around 625-650 RWHP, then spray it with a 250 progressive direct port shot.
You'll easily have your 9's, maybe 8's, and a daily driver car.
Complete LSX sprayed engine will cost about $18,000 or so. NO WARRANTY.
The BBC 632ci/1000 hp comes with a 2yr/unlimited mileage warranty....hard to beat that man.
.
Screw it. Get a GM LSX iron block if you do choose to push one to 1,000 hp. You can have it drive VERY VERY nice on the street and be sitting around 625-650 RWHP, then spray it with a 250 progressive direct port shot.
You'll easily have your 9's, maybe 8's, and a daily driver car.
Complete LSX sprayed engine will cost about $18,000 or so. NO WARRANTY.
The BBC 632ci/1000 hp comes with a 2yr/unlimited mileage warranty....hard to beat that man.
.
gearhead,
Screw it. Get a GM LSX iron block if you do choose to push one to 1,000 hp. You can have it drive VERY VERY nice on the street and be sitting around 625-650 RWHP, then spray it with a 250 progressive direct port shot.
You'll easily have your 9's, maybe 8's, and a daily driver car.
Complete LSX sprayed engine will cost about $18,000 or so.
.
Screw it. Get a GM LSX iron block if you do choose to push one to 1,000 hp. You can have it drive VERY VERY nice on the street and be sitting around 625-650 RWHP, then spray it with a 250 progressive direct port shot.
You'll easily have your 9's, maybe 8's, and a daily driver car.
Complete LSX sprayed engine will cost about $18,000 or so.
.
Now your talkin!! Amen brother you've seen the LIGHT!!!
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 301
Likes: 20
Twin76mmTA: Holy ****, Batman, what a setup! That's gotta be a full-tilt monster and a helluva ride. How high do you spin that beast? I've watched a 632 with those heads on a dyno pull to 7500, damned impressive and that was without spray. That SOB has gotta be some kind of a handful at full power!
8.35 @ 169mph. Power out the wazoo. My kinda guy
8.35 @ 169mph. Power out the wazoo. My kinda guy
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
It does suck to have NO warranty though. He has to take that into consideration. It'd be nice to have that BBC with 2 yrs. of worry free driving.
This is another dis-advantage of having a high hp LSx engine, you must spray it or blow it to get these power levels, then you lose warranty.
.
This is another dis-advantage of having a high hp LSx engine, you must spray it or blow it to get these power levels, then you lose warranty.
.
wow i missed alot.. i dont know where to start.. this is a great topic. good arguments back and forth.. i decided on a BB because it just drops right in and because a chevelle is fat the torque is needed.
the whole point of this thread is to see if it was worth the trouble to swap in an LS for my goals.
nobdody really went for or against this.. i dont want to go into the complexity of turbos... why are turbos the only way to go if I want multiple tunes. why can I not take off the blower belt (adjust wastegate for turbos) for my street tune and put my belt on (adjust wastegate for turbos) for strip tune?
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp).. if somebody sees a better way of doing this with a BB than a procharged 540 im all ears.. thats y im here.. for ideas and suggestions.. if a big nitrous shot is that much easier I would consider it..
the whole point of this thread is to see if it was worth the trouble to swap in an LS for my goals.
nobdody really went for or against this.. i dont want to go into the complexity of turbos... why are turbos the only way to go if I want multiple tunes. why can I not take off the blower belt (adjust wastegate for turbos) for my street tune and put my belt on (adjust wastegate for turbos) for strip tune?
my goal is to try and have two tunes.. a low one for street driving so that i dont slide everywhere(550-750) and a strip tune so i can run 9's in a chevelle(~1000hp).. if somebody sees a better way of doing this with a BB than a procharged 540 im all ears.. thats y im here.. for ideas and suggestions.. if a big nitrous shot is that much easier I would consider it..
I figured you were gonna go with the big block anyways. Which is a great choice. The 71 chevelle I was talking about has a turbo big block going into it now. But I really can't go into that. But it should make some good power. You'll be happy with it. As far as cost I don't know if it will be any cheaper. I sure hope you are going with EFI and not a carburetor. Cheers.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Basically, he's looking at spending about $20K+ on a 1,000 hp LSX or exactly $21K for the 632ci/1,000 hp.
The 632 will last longer, will be more reliable, will be on pump gas (LSX FI will require race gas if it's gonna last more than 1 month), will be awesome for that type of car, and a WARRANTY.
For him, with a '70 Chevelle, it's a no-brainer.
If it were an F-Body, the LSX because you would have $2,000-$3,000 in fabbing to make the BBC fit.
If anything, he's got pros and cons all over this thread for both now.
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