Convince me to build LS instead of BBC!!!
the thread is about deciding on a power adder to get me to 1000hp... i never said i wanted 1000hp N/A... you seem very good with quoting me... surprised you didnt see that....
i used turbos as an example of how to get 1000hp with pump gas since you seem so obsessed with a big shot of nitrous and race gas... surprised you didnt catch that either... same would go with a procharger...
again i never said 16 injectors are needed.. i said its one option...
i said u shuld keep up on ur stuff cuz your telling me i need race gas to get 1000hp out of 540 cubes with a power adder...
ooo carb hat or throttle body piping... my goodness what a monstrous difference. the point was taking it off not to tell you im using a carb
oo wow look your offline now.. that must mean mommy tucked you in already.. your good with the jokes... i guess you use them to justify yourself your argument.. bravo by the way they do add a convincing point..
i used turbos as an example of how to get 1000hp with pump gas since you seem so obsessed with a big shot of nitrous and race gas... surprised you didnt catch that either... same would go with a procharger...
again i never said 16 injectors are needed.. i said its one option...
i said u shuld keep up on ur stuff cuz your telling me i need race gas to get 1000hp out of 540 cubes with a power adder...
ooo carb hat or throttle body piping... my goodness what a monstrous difference. the point was taking it off not to tell you im using a carb
oo wow look your offline now.. that must mean mommy tucked you in already.. your good with the jokes... i guess you use them to justify yourself your argument.. bravo by the way they do add a convincing point..
i think u should go with the lsx block u can go as big as 454 easy make over 1000 hp plus u can build 1 for less than 12k, or u could go with the 500ci katech block that there going to be selling soon they put down 650hp with stock zo6 parts on this block and completely streetable
they got a pretty good speech about y u should get go ls1 check it out
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/806751-katech-performance-super-engine-powers-c6rs-supercar.html
they got a pretty good speech about y u should get go ls1 check it out
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/806751-katech-performance-super-engine-powers-c6rs-supercar.html
the thread is about deciding on a power adder to get me to 1000hp... i never said i wanted 1000hp N/A... you seem very good with quoting me... surprised you didnt see that....
i used turbos as an example of how to get 1000hp with pump gas since you seem so obsessed with a big shot of nitrous and race gas... surprised you didnt catch that either... same would go with a procharger...
again i never said 16 injectors are needed.. i said its one option...
i said u shuld keep up on ur stuff cuz your telling me i need race gas to get 1000hp out of 540 cubes with a power adder...
ooo carb hat or throttle body piping... my goodness what a monstrous difference. the point was taking it off not to tell you im using a carb
oo wow look your offline now.. that must mean mommy tucked you in already.. your good with the jokes... i guess you use them to justify yourself your argument.. bravo by the way they do add a convincing point..
i used turbos as an example of how to get 1000hp with pump gas since you seem so obsessed with a big shot of nitrous and race gas... surprised you didnt catch that either... same would go with a procharger...
again i never said 16 injectors are needed.. i said its one option...
i said u shuld keep up on ur stuff cuz your telling me i need race gas to get 1000hp out of 540 cubes with a power adder...
ooo carb hat or throttle body piping... my goodness what a monstrous difference. the point was taking it off not to tell you im using a carb
oo wow look your offline now.. that must mean mommy tucked you in already.. your good with the jokes... i guess you use them to justify yourself your argument.. bravo by the way they do add a convincing point..
As far as NEEDING race gas, I never said you needed it, but its easier to make power with it, and I wouldnt wanna attempt spraying a big shot without it.
Its you that needs to keep up on your stuff. You didnt even think you could spray a 540 with over a 200 shot.
I've tuned 1500 hp top sportsman cars that run 4.60s in the eighth. Just 2 weeks ago I wired up a progressive controller in a 638 inch quick 8 car. I ran around with an alcohol funny car for a while.
I've been building hot rods and race cars for damn near 20 years. If you want I can post a whole photo album of **** I've built. You have no clue what I know.
You sound like a child. You spell and punctuate like a child.
i dont want to deal with race gas.. thats why i didnt consider over a 200 shot...
this is a forum. im not writing a book. your gonna hit me on punctuation? look who sounds like a child.
yes i agree that turbo or nitrous are the easiest way of having two tunes.. however i dont want to deal with race gas or all the pumbling and fab of turbos.. what i wanted to know is if its possible to have two tunes with a procharger.. i agree its not commonly done but with a procharger, however install is simple and it doesnt require race gas.. i dont understand how this caused you to burst out on me being a child with dreams..
those are impressive achievments but to be frank criticizing somebodys thread is not the point of a community like this. if an answer was obvious and clear cut then it wouldnt be posted. people might change their minds or opinions and hopefully in the end will have an the answer they are happy with because of everyones productive contributions. people like you ruin it for everyone. its a shame that you have all the experience and knowledge but cant seem to help people with it. instead you criticize people whose ideas might venture just a bit from yours. if your comments arent beneficial do everyone a favor here and dont post them and ruin people's threads.
this is a forum. im not writing a book. your gonna hit me on punctuation? look who sounds like a child.
yes i agree that turbo or nitrous are the easiest way of having two tunes.. however i dont want to deal with race gas or all the pumbling and fab of turbos.. what i wanted to know is if its possible to have two tunes with a procharger.. i agree its not commonly done but with a procharger, however install is simple and it doesnt require race gas.. i dont understand how this caused you to burst out on me being a child with dreams..
those are impressive achievments but to be frank criticizing somebodys thread is not the point of a community like this. if an answer was obvious and clear cut then it wouldnt be posted. people might change their minds or opinions and hopefully in the end will have an the answer they are happy with because of everyones productive contributions. people like you ruin it for everyone. its a shame that you have all the experience and knowledge but cant seem to help people with it. instead you criticize people whose ideas might venture just a bit from yours. if your comments arent beneficial do everyone a favor here and dont post them and ruin people's threads.
Last edited by gearhead1186; Nov 12, 2007 at 12:08 AM.
What is the big deal about not useing race gas? I can understand if you only want to use pump gas b/c of the $$$ that would be used while street racing. But if you are street racing, traction would become you biggest problem. It would do you no good to have a 1000 HP if you can only plant 650. I would think that a turbo set up would be the best for what you are trying to accomplish. Get an electronic boost controller with presets for each gear that way you don't overpower the tires. This would require some dyno time figuring out how much boost equals so much HP. If you ever make it to a track then you could "afford" a tank of race fuel to put some low number's down before you get booted off of the track for improper saftey equiptment. Sorry, but it does sound like you are years away from this kind of project or that you are day dreaming.
Here are a few links to look at:
http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages...sku=101356-12H
This paticular boost controller used to have boost presets for a launch + five forward gears when I last looked into buying one for my 64' Nova TT 352 project. You could set boost levels for each one of its comands.
http://www.ls1speed.com/article2/index.htm
http://www.forcedinductions.com/product.htm
http://www.innovativeturbo.com/pages...sku=101356-12H
This paticular boost controller used to have boost presets for a launch + five forward gears when I last looked into buying one for my 64' Nova TT 352 project. You could set boost levels for each one of its comands.
http://www.ls1speed.com/article2/index.htm
http://www.forcedinductions.com/product.htm
Again talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Its ok, you can admit you dont know what you are talking about.
people like you ruin it for everyone. its a shame that you have all the experience and knowledge but cant seem to help people with it. instead you criticize people whose ideas might venture just a bit from yours. if your comments arent beneficial do everyone a favor here and dont post them and ruin people's threads.
Gearhead I am sorry it took me so long to find this thread on here. Sorry about the thread on chevelles.com I just hate to see people completely discredit the Gen III/IV architecture saying its junk. As I have already stated for the most part a bbc is unbeatable for your goals cost and power wise. The only thing that bothers me is you want your car to handle as well as go fast in a straight line. The amount of weight you could drop off the frontend of your car with an aluminum LS2 would be a big advantage in that department. Also, a 4-link is most certainly not the best option for a car that handles. The C4L setup on the chevelle has gone very fast in the quarter on chevelles with the right control arms although it will always give way the 4-link in 60 foot times but it also can me made to handle fairly well.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Pouria Savadkouei
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
I've spoken to many of the old school guys, ALOT of them think its GAY AS HELL to put a small block LSx in that type of car. Some also LOVE it, some could care less either way.
I just stated a fact....some people think its GAY.
I'm not one of them, I think the LS and the new LSX are awesome platforms, but for what he wants, a BBC, it will whip the living **** out of any LSx or LSX blocked engine......NOW THIS IS THE KEY------> for the HORSEPOWER goals and USE goals he is looking for.....PERIOD.
.
edc-matl1 im not going to waste anymore of my time arguing with you.. obviously continuing to post here against me shows you have nothing better to do. go help people with legit questions then. if posting here against me makes you feel good then continue but im going to try to salvage this thread as talking with you gets me nothing.
97Tbird, thanks for the links and I was actually thinking about the race gas idea and you pretty much hit the nail on the head.. because of the ease of a nitrous setup i suppose i could swallow using race gas at the track.. i tossed the twin turbo idea in my head for a while but I dont think I want to deal with all the fab and plumbing. if your going to turn into edc-matl1 with these child dreaming comments then please dont post here as im looking for productive contributions not arguments..
pistolPete, ya I asked somewhere if 4link would be an OK balance between handling and strip and nobody really answered.. common sense told me it wouldnt work well but i didnt get an outright response till now.. the ls is aluminum is what put the idea into my head in the first place.. do you know the weight diff between a built ls vs a built merlin?
97Tbird, thanks for the links and I was actually thinking about the race gas idea and you pretty much hit the nail on the head.. because of the ease of a nitrous setup i suppose i could swallow using race gas at the track.. i tossed the twin turbo idea in my head for a while but I dont think I want to deal with all the fab and plumbing. if your going to turn into edc-matl1 with these child dreaming comments then please dont post here as im looking for productive contributions not arguments..
pistolPete, ya I asked somewhere if 4link would be an OK balance between handling and strip and nobody really answered.. common sense told me it wouldnt work well but i didnt get an outright response till now.. the ls is aluminum is what put the idea into my head in the first place.. do you know the weight diff between a built ls vs a built merlin?
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
This is why the stand alone tank feeding 8 other injectors with race gas is the way to go. Also, a timing tuner before you hit the button to drop the timing.
This way you will run around all the time on one tune forever. When you want to race you hit one button to drop the timing, then another button which automatically opens your bottle, then the FUN button for the spray. All while on the fly.
That system will cost MUCH less than setting up a Procharger or turbo system.
.
97Tbird, thanks for the links and I was actually thinking about the race gas idea and you pretty much hit the nail on the head.. because of the ease of a nitrous setup i suppose i could swallow using race gas at the track.. i tossed the twin turbo idea in my head for a while but I dont think I want to deal with all the fab and plumbing. if your going to turn into edc-matl1 with these child dreaming comments then please dont post here as im looking for productive contributions not arguments..
Gearhead-The biggest problem with the conventional four link in a handling type situation is the lateral location of the axle. You may be able to gain back some of this disadvantage with something like a panhard bar. However, a panhard bar has its inherent disadvantages as well. I am not an expert in the suspension area like some of the chevelles.com guys are so don't get me wrong I believe a 4 link could be made to handle fairly well but it would be alot more work than just upgrading the control arms on the stock C4L setup. As far as weight goes unfortunately I have no direct comparison to make. The iron GenIII engine weighs about 80lbs more than the Aluminum Gen III engine so I think it would be a conservative estimate to say the Iron big block weighs 150 lbs more than an aluminum Gen III. I would like to see some more precise numbers on this as much as you.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
gearhead,
The extra weight from a BBC is meaningless for a street car that will be driven for fun 5,000 miles a year with occassional track visits. You can still have it handle GREAT for the street. It will outhandle any street tire you will be using anyway, and the tire is gonna be your weak link. NOW...if you're planning to road race this car, which you're obviously NOT, then I would say go with the aluminum LSx engine to save every little bit.
I think you have people here believing that you want a road race quality suspension and will be using it for just that...and again, you're NOT.
So, go with some decent suspension mods, don't go nuts because you're gonna be on the street with it using street tires. Since you DO want to make some occassional track visits to race in a straight line, do some mods that will help with that too. You will find a pretty nice medium for street/strip. Then you just make some adjustments at the track on the suspension, change your tires and go run your 9 second passes.
Your BBC nitrous enigne choice, I think you can put that to rest, its your best choice.
.
The extra weight from a BBC is meaningless for a street car that will be driven for fun 5,000 miles a year with occassional track visits. You can still have it handle GREAT for the street. It will outhandle any street tire you will be using anyway, and the tire is gonna be your weak link. NOW...if you're planning to road race this car, which you're obviously NOT, then I would say go with the aluminum LSx engine to save every little bit.
I think you have people here believing that you want a road race quality suspension and will be using it for just that...and again, you're NOT.
So, go with some decent suspension mods, don't go nuts because you're gonna be on the street with it using street tires. Since you DO want to make some occassional track visits to race in a straight line, do some mods that will help with that too. You will find a pretty nice medium for street/strip. Then you just make some adjustments at the track on the suspension, change your tires and go run your 9 second passes.
Your BBC nitrous enigne choice, I think you can put that to rest, its your best choice.
.
I'm not trying to be un-productive for your thread, but trying to help with figuring out the best way to acheive your goals. It sounds like you now want to go with n2o only. I would use a Jacobs nitrous progressive controller so that you don't blow tire as soon has you hit the happy button. It does have a ignition retard feature that is adjustable by dial. Again you could go to the dyno and get your timing retard to n2o shot dialed in with bolth pump gas & race fuel. http://www.jacobselectronics.com/pdf...ies[1].pdf
quickin.. instead of having 16 injectors, is it possible to have a separate fuel cell for race fuel with an electric pump hooked up to it and leading to a solenoid. when racing i could switch that pump on and then have a wet nitrous system draw fuel from there instead of my regular "pump gas tank".. or is this what your trying to say?
Last edited by gearhead1186; Nov 12, 2007 at 01:42 PM.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
quickin.. instead of having 16 injectors, is it possible to have a separate fuel cell for race fuel with an electric pump hooked up to it and leading to a solenoid. when racing i could switch that pump on and then have a wet nitrous system draw fuel from there instead of my regular "pump gas tank".. or is this what your trying to say?
The more complicated you get with nitrous, the bigger the chance you're gonna lose your engine from a failure of some part of the system while spraying.
If you're gonna go with spray, keep it simple and use what has worked for decades.
If you can afford the extra money for the 16 injector system, you have your solution to what type of system you want. Pump gas full time while city driving and the stand alone tank with race gas for the runs. All you have to do is push a couple buttons to get it ready in a matter of 8 seconds and you can drag race with nitrous safely.
Thats it man, you're there.
.
Ok, heres my productive contribution. This is an EFI 540 in our shop right now. With a fogger. With these solenoids, shes only good for a 250 shot. Thats all the customer wants. With nothing more than changing the solenoids and the jets, its good for up to 500. Its not very complicated, nothing that hasnt been done before. You dont need a second set of fuel injectors. You could run a dedicated pump, cell, and lines, just for the spray, and have your race gas right there. The cell could be real small. 1.5-2 gallons. Something also readily available. The triming retard is also pretty simplistic. Nothing more than a timing retard activated by the WOT switch.
As for a chassis that will legally go in the 9s, theres regulations, specifications that you'll need to build to. 7.5-9 seconds is not a "class". The cert to go 9s will cover you to 8.5. Anything faster than that is a whole diff ball o' wax.
If you want I can post some pics of the last cert 8.5 chassis we built.
As for a chassis that will legally go in the 9s, theres regulations, specifications that you'll need to build to. 7.5-9 seconds is not a "class". The cert to go 9s will cover you to 8.5. Anything faster than that is a whole diff ball o' wax.
If you want I can post some pics of the last cert 8.5 chassis we built.
thanks for the clarification guys.. quickin, i think you misunderstood wat I meant or I didnt word it right... what i meant to say was to run a fogger system that draws from a standalone race fuel cell and fuel system instead of dealing with extra injectors. this is what edc-matlt1 mentions
thanks for the post..what you mentioned is what i want to do. its straightforward and simple. dont have to deal with extra injectors. run a separate race fuel system that the fogger draws from. so correct me if im wrong. run on the street straight from the regular tank. when im at the track all i have to do is open the bottle, switch on my pump connected to my race fuel cell (prolly doesnt need a return since it will only be on for a short time). have timing retard connected to full throttle. and have some progressive controller. only requires one tune
ya I would like to see some pics of the certified chassis.
thanks guys i think im finally decided.
Ok, heres my productive contribution. This is an EFI 540 in our shop right now. With a fogger. With these solenoids, shes only good for a 250 shot. Thats all the customer wants. With nothing more than changing the solenoids and the jets, its good for up to 500. Its not very complicated, nothing that hasnt been done before. You dont need a second set of fuel injectors. You could run a dedicated pump, cell, and lines, just for the spray, and have your race gas right there. The cell could be real small. 1.5-2 gallons. Something also readily available. The triming retard is also pretty simplistic. Nothing more than a timing retard activated by the WOT switch.
As for a chassis that will legally go in the 9s, theres regulations, specifications that you'll need to build to. 7.5-9 seconds is not a "class". The cert to go 9s will cover you to 8.5. Anything faster than that is a whole diff ball o' wax.
If you want I can post some pics of the last cert 8.5 chassis we built.
As for a chassis that will legally go in the 9s, theres regulations, specifications that you'll need to build to. 7.5-9 seconds is not a "class". The cert to go 9s will cover you to 8.5. Anything faster than that is a whole diff ball o' wax.
If you want I can post some pics of the last cert 8.5 chassis we built.
ya I would like to see some pics of the certified chassis.
thanks guys i think im finally decided.
Nitrous is turned on and off with a master switch, or "arming" switch. This one single switch can activate the whole system and the fuel pump. The timing retard is activated by the WOT throttle switch. The switch that makes the system start sprayin.
