I want a built engine got 14K
01-03-2008, 01:42 PM
#21
Also, almost all the sponsors give a warranty...some are 2yr/24,000 mile if they do the install and tune.
You would be insane to use any builder who doesn't offer this, or something. It directly tells you something about the quality of their work, or at least tells you something about their own confidence.
Oh well...good luck with your choice.
You would be insane to use any builder who doesn't offer this, or something. It directly tells you something about the quality of their work, or at least tells you something about their own confidence.
Oh well...good luck with your choice.
Most builders will offer a 90 day without power adder but if you use a power adder all bets are off. The builder has no control of the bone head end user who is an amateur expert tuner because they bought tuning software.
Builders would go out of business supporting idiots who think they're tuners or FI specialists
If builder instals and tunes most of them do offer a good warranty.
Fasterq you are grossly misinformed with just about everything you've posted in this thread
01-03-2008, 01:54 PM
#22
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Also, almost all the sponsors give a warranty...some are 2yr/24,000 mile if they do the install and tune.
You would be insane to use any builder who doesn't offer this, or something. It directly tells you something about the quality of their work, or at least tells you something about their own confidence.
Oh well...good luck with your choice.
You would be insane to use any builder who doesn't offer this, or something. It directly tells you something about the quality of their work, or at least tells you something about their own confidence.
Oh well...good luck with your choice.
Example #1-
Say we install a motor and were able to tune the car in house. Lets say the car has a Procharger on it. The customer gets the car home goes to the track and wants to get a better ET. The customer changes pullies to add another 10 lbs of boost but does not change the tune. Motor goes boom. Put the pullies back on and say its our fault?
#2
Customer has us build a 14.1:1 solid roller race only engine. Customer decides a year later he wants to street drive the car a little and decides to start using pump gas and gets a crappy batch of fuel, lays into the car hard on the highway detonates the bearings out of it. That is our fault?
#3
Customer does not like to change oil or do any maintence. Not to mention he took his air filter out at the track to pick up some ET/MPH. Debris gets in the motor and scores the bearings. This results in a failure.
#4
Customers car is a 6 speed. Customer isnt familiar with new found power and bangs the car off the limiter at every shift, maybe misses a shift and bends valves. This again, not because we built the engine wrong.
I can go on forever with these scenarios and why we cannot give out a warranty with our high performance applications. There are too many variables that are out of our control.
We have not had a warranty for 40 years, nor do I see us giving one. We have not been around for 40 years because of crappy quality either I can assure you that. We have been around for 40 years because we have the equipment and the knowledge to build engines that make power and last in racing and street applications alike. Our reputation speaks for itself, we do not need a warranty to validate that.
01-03-2008, 01:58 PM
#23
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Not giving a warranty has nothing to do with the quality of work performed. There are just too many things that a customer can do that is out of our hands.
Example #1-
Say we install a motor and were able to tune the car in house. Lets say the car has a Procharger on it. The customer gets the car home goes to the track and wants to get a better ET. The customer changes pullies to add another 10 lbs of boost but does not change the tune. Motor goes boom. Put the pullies back on and say its our fault?
#2
Customer has us build a 14.1:1 solid roller race only engine. Customer decides a year later he wants to street drive the car a little and decides to start using pump gas and gets a crappy batch of fuel, lays into the car hard on the highway detonates the bearings out of it. That is our fault?
#3
Customer does not like to change oil or do any maintence. Not to mention he took his air filter out at the track to pick up some ET/MPH. Debris gets in the motor and scores the bearings. This results in a failure.
#4
Customers car is a 6 speed. Customer isnt familiar with new found power and bangs the car off the limiter at every shift, maybe misses a shift and bends valves. This again, not because we built the engine wrong.
I can go on forever with these scenarios and why we cannot give out a warranty with our high performance applications. There are too many variables that are out of our control.
We have not had a warranty for 40 years, nor do I see us giving one. We have not been around for 40 years because of crappy quality either I can assure you that. We have been around for 40 years because we have the equipment and the knowledge to build engines that make power and last in racing and street applications alike. Our reputation speaks for itself, we do not need a warranty to validate that.
Example #1-
Say we install a motor and were able to tune the car in house. Lets say the car has a Procharger on it. The customer gets the car home goes to the track and wants to get a better ET. The customer changes pullies to add another 10 lbs of boost but does not change the tune. Motor goes boom. Put the pullies back on and say its our fault?
#2
Customer has us build a 14.1:1 solid roller race only engine. Customer decides a year later he wants to street drive the car a little and decides to start using pump gas and gets a crappy batch of fuel, lays into the car hard on the highway detonates the bearings out of it. That is our fault?
#3
Customer does not like to change oil or do any maintence. Not to mention he took his air filter out at the track to pick up some ET/MPH. Debris gets in the motor and scores the bearings. This results in a failure.
#4
Customers car is a 6 speed. Customer isnt familiar with new found power and bangs the car off the limiter at every shift, maybe misses a shift and bends valves. This again, not because we built the engine wrong.
I can go on forever with these scenarios and why we cannot give out a warranty with our high performance applications. There are too many variables that are out of our control.
We have not had a warranty for 40 years, nor do I see us giving one. We have not been around for 40 years because of crappy quality either I can assure you that. We have been around for 40 years because we have the equipment and the knowledge to build engines that make power and last in racing and street applications alike. Our reputation speaks for itself, we do not need a warranty to validate that.
Why no warranty at all, not even a 90-day?
LPE, MTI and other sponsors offer 2yr/24,000 mile warranties, they're still in business.
01-03-2008, 02:01 PM
#24
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What if one of your customers with an N/A 408ci street car engine pulled away from your shop and 45 days later called you and said coolant was getting sucked into the cylinders.
Are they 100% screwed? Or would you take care of that at no charge at all after inspecting it and coming to the conclusion that no spray or FI was used.
01-03-2008, 02:03 PM
#25
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I would not lock somebodies PCM. They have every right to it. ESP. if it is someone from out of state and ever needed to make any kind of chage for tire, gear or transmission changes. Too much to worry about.
Again even with NA I gave examples of what the possibilities are.
We are in business to sell performance parts and build engines. Not to tune cars and install the parts. Maybe later down the road but we stick to one thing and do it very well.
01-03-2008, 02:06 PM
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What if one of your customers with an N/A 408ci street car engine pulled away from your shop and 45 days later called you and said coolant was getting sucked into the cylinders.
Are they 100% screwed? Or would you take care of that at no charge at all after inspecting it and coming to the conclusion that no spray or FI was used.
Are they 100% screwed? Or would you take care of that at no charge at all after inspecting it and coming to the conclusion that no spray or FI was used.
01-03-2008, 03:07 PM
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Just remember, to agree that the LSX iron block is not STRONGER, MORE RELIABLE, CHEAPER and will have more LONGEVITY than an aluminum LSx block.......shows who the ignorant people are. Its ok to be ignorant though, it just means you have learning to do.
Will an aluminum blocked 500 RWHP street use engine be good....YES. But it IS NOT better than the iron blocked 500 RWHP engine and it WILL NOT last as long.
Will an aluminum blocked 500 RWHP street use engine be good....YES. But it IS NOT better than the iron blocked 500 RWHP engine and it WILL NOT last as long.
01-03-2008, 03:36 PM
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LSX iron > LSx aluminum....plain and simple for a non drag racing, non road racing, straight line moving street car that will last a long time. And cheaper and more rebuildable...........
01-03-2008, 04:08 PM
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Just remember, to agree that the LSX iron block is not STRONGER, MORE RELIABLE, CHEAPER and will have more LONGEVITY than an aluminum LSx block.......shows who the ignorant people are. Its ok to be ignorant though, it just means you have learning to do.
Will an aluminum blocked 500 RWHP street use engine be good....YES. But it IS NOT better than the iron blocked 500 RWHP engine and it WILL NOT last as long.
Will an aluminum blocked 500 RWHP street use engine be good....YES. But it IS NOT better than the iron blocked 500 RWHP engine and it WILL NOT last as long.
GM blew it by offering the aluminum motors in production vehicles....maybe my odometer is off, but I see well over 100,000 miles of N20 abuse on my aluminum blocked bottom end, so what am I missing out on? An extra 80 lbs.?
You have been blatantly told by people that know quite a bit about building engines that your 'theory' is just plain wrong, yet you now call these guys ignorant....LOL.
Take a step back and look at what you are saying here.....
01-03-2008, 05:43 PM
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Sooooo...you got it all figured out.
GM blew it by offering the aluminum motors in production vehicles....maybe my odometer is off, but I see well over 100,000 miles of N20 abuse on my aluminum blocked bottom end, so what am I missing out on? An extra 80 lbs.?
You have been blatantly told by people that know quite a bit about building engines that your 'theory' is just plain wrong, yet you now call these guys ignorant....LOL.
Take a step back and look at what you are saying here.....
GM blew it by offering the aluminum motors in production vehicles....maybe my odometer is off, but I see well over 100,000 miles of N20 abuse on my aluminum blocked bottom end, so what am I missing out on? An extra 80 lbs.?
You have been blatantly told by people that know quite a bit about building engines that your 'theory' is just plain wrong, yet you now call these guys ignorant....LOL.
Take a step back and look at what you are saying here.....
Gotta admit, all of that is true. And to put iron blocks in all the factory made stock cars would be stupid, no need as the power levels are cheezy low, the original poster said he wanted a HIGH hp perfomance engine that will beat Z06's and Vipers.
Who would want a weaker aluminum block when for a lower price they can have a block thats more than twice as strong that can be rebuilt over and over. As long as weight isn't an issue, which for the original poster...it's NOT, it seems like a no brainer to spend less for more.......NO?????
01-03-2008, 09:59 PM
#34
I was gunna try and defend my words a bit here, but I think it has been covered. I'm not sure why you 2 guys think iron is superior in all aspects, but you are sadly misinformed. There are plenty of 600 rwhp+ cars out there with sleeved aluminum motors that have never had a problem. Dropped sleeves aren't a issue if you have the proper person doing the work. Espeacially since the Darton sleeves have integrated "ridges" that the sleeves sit on so they can't drop. I didn't think twice when ordering my sleeved block for my HIGH hp 454ci. Sure I could have ordered a LSX, but why would I want an extra 125lbs hanging off the front of my car? I promise you the LSX is not the end all of blocks. In any instance, if your argument held water, the truck iron block would be easily effective and much cheaper than a LSX for his application. Just seems like iron blocks are the cool thing in your town and your trying to press them for some reason. You guys should do a bit of searching on the improvements of sleeved blocks. Seems like you have a bunch of bad information that has spoiled you outlook towards them.....
01-03-2008, 11:00 PM
#35
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hey not to go to much off topic but I for one am curious as to when your getting your little beastie going there beast??? Ive been patiently waiting haha ok maybe not patiently but excitedly LOL
01-03-2008, 11:09 PM
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fasterq is loco. aluminum blocks are fine for 99% of the guys who do ls based motors.
i know several guys with 100k+ on their stock shortblocks that made tons of power and sprayed nitrous.
is an lsx block better than an alum? well if you are going to make 1000+ hp it may be wise to use an iron block. othewise, alum is king. 125 lbs is a lot really.
i know several guys with 100k+ on their stock shortblocks that made tons of power and sprayed nitrous.
is an lsx block better than an alum? well if you are going to make 1000+ hp it may be wise to use an iron block. othewise, alum is king. 125 lbs is a lot really.
01-03-2008, 11:11 PM
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also, a tfs cathedral head seem to be making more tq and as much or more hp as the ls7 stuff. a 402-414 with tfs heads would make damn near 550/500 or more.
do your homework.
do your homework.
01-04-2008, 12:18 AM
#39
I'm sure you've heard of "dropped sleeves". Why risk that happeneing when for a LOWER price you can have an animal of a block like the LSX iron block?
Iron will last longer, period?
My exact words were, "better running engine throughout its life". Which is true due to problems that arise from sleeves like rounding and wear causing OIL BURN. An iron block will reisist this 100 times better throughout its LIFETIME. How many 100,000 mile super strokers are out there. I know of many iron blocks ell over 100,000 and they're still fine.
Mess up a sleeve due to some kind of failure and.....throw the entire block in the garbage. Iron block, rehone and put it back together...again, iron, BETTER all around.
The iron LSX is better for anyone except a very serious road racer or drag racer due to the weight savings. A street car that someone wants to have for a LONG time without any of the issues associated with an aluminum block....the iron block is the best choice...and AGAIN...it's CHEAPER than the sleeved aluminum block.
I can't believe anyone here would recommend to someone to go with a weaker, sleeved aluminum block that can have issues....when weight IS NOT A CONCERN....and once again the iron block is CHEAPER.......rather than use the LSX iron block.
I think that covers all your points.
Iron will last longer, period?
My exact words were, "better running engine throughout its life". Which is true due to problems that arise from sleeves like rounding and wear causing OIL BURN. An iron block will reisist this 100 times better throughout its LIFETIME. How many 100,000 mile super strokers are out there. I know of many iron blocks ell over 100,000 and they're still fine.
Mess up a sleeve due to some kind of failure and.....throw the entire block in the garbage. Iron block, rehone and put it back together...again, iron, BETTER all around.
The iron LSX is better for anyone except a very serious road racer or drag racer due to the weight savings. A street car that someone wants to have for a LONG time without any of the issues associated with an aluminum block....the iron block is the best choice...and AGAIN...it's CHEAPER than the sleeved aluminum block.
I can't believe anyone here would recommend to someone to go with a weaker, sleeved aluminum block that can have issues....when weight IS NOT A CONCERN....and once again the iron block is CHEAPER.......rather than use the LSX iron block.
I think that covers all your points.
Did you ever get your two LSX 1000hp street builds finished? Boy I sure would like to see what NRE built for you
Let us know how it went! Seems 1 month ago you were asking questions, you seem to be pretty knowledgable now.
Tony.
01-04-2008, 12:31 AM
#40
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I just had a 427 L92 built by vengeance racing trickflow heads 11.6 comp under 600 lift cam. I was looking for the exact same thing. It made 550 hp in street trim. I spent 14 on everything fuel sys, headers, tune, tex clutch complete turn key. It drives great and came with a one year unlimited mile waranty as long as theres no power adders. They are very easy to work with. Ask to speak to Ron.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7788/008ya3.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7788/008ya3.jpg
Last edited by jcoker; 01-04-2008 at 10:00 AM.