jermzz

iTrader: (18)

If you have 14k I say go lsx too. Go with a 454 and you'll make 550 with great streetability. 600+ if you go radical. I'd love to see a 402, 408, or even 427 make that kinda power so easy.

I had a sleeved aluminum 427, and I ditched it to go with a 454 for this reason. I cant 100% say it yet, but i'm almost certain that going iron lsx is not gonna be a mistake. Even for just the stupid things. Like running Evans coolant. Darton likes you to run Evans. If you get unlucky like I did and get a coolant leak you're screwed unless you have an extra jug or two on hand. blah blah blah.

Ive talked to many people on the forum over PM (some of which in this thread) about different types of builds to get what I want which is sorta similar to what the OP wants. I ended up with the 454 option. My budget is the same as his.

If this guy is gonna have a full weight street car, he's gonna need the extra power to put a new z06 in the rear view. I agree that weight is weight, but the extra 125lbs in a street car isn't gonna make or break the car.

I think it's a no brainer that the lsx is stronger then a sleeved aluminum block. Whether you're talking about the material itself, or the fact that the lsx has 6 bolt mains, etc etc. I agree aluminum WILL do the trick if you dont plan on exceeding the limitations of the material, but again, you're paying 1000+ dollars to save just over 100lbs on something that doesn't even have as much POTENTIAL.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

No, again your wrong. What he's agreeing with is the fact that your mis-informed.

Does GM put iron blocks into their Vette? They seem to think the ls7 block is fine. Was the ls2 iron or the ls1? Your the only one here, inlcuding GM that thinks an iron block is the only way to build a depenable car less expensive engine. So what was GM's plan. Throw away the motor at 100k?

You are saying that GM is ignorant and your smarter. OK, We all buy into that.

Yes iron is stronger than aluminum and does no distort as easily. Those are basic elemental facts. BUT it doesnt mean that aluminum blocks suck and should be thrown out at 100k. Your confused and mis-informed.

Your warranty arguments are extremely mis-informed.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

I agree about the FI part. I dunno who you're going through for your builds, but 90 days doesn't show much confidence.

The guy who posted above me who got his motor built at vengeance and I (different shop non sponsor) both got 1 year unlimited mileage.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

You should actualy speak to a builder and get some good information to base your opinion on. Whats the bore on the LSX block when you get it? Needs to be finished to the size bore you want. That adds cost. Then the block isnt all that in the first place, but unless you speak with someone who really knows his **** then you wont get the right info.

C5R is aluminum and the LS7 is aluminum. Where is the race version of the Vette with an iron block? Is the LS9 iron?

Potential? Whats the breaking point of the LS7 smart guy? What's it's potential? W2W has a 1250 hp FI application ls2 402 they sell. SO you know more than they do right?

You idiots and your iron block argument really need to do some more research.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

First off, you make yourself look like an *** by throwing around names. I don't think you, myself or anyone else in this thread is an idiot. Voice your opinion and argue but leave the name calling out, what's it proving?

Second, boring a block doesnt cost 1000 bucks. haha Or in this case 1500+ bucks. The lsx block is about 2000 said and done shipped (not finish bored), where my sleeved ls6 block was a hair shy of 3500.

As for the ls7, I've never seen one break, but I talked to LME and W2W who both said that they would highly NOT recommend going over 1k horse.

Do you know the definition of potential? Show me anywhere, ANYWHERE where GM or anyone else would recommend, build or advertise an aluminum block to 2500horse?

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

Each shop has their own warranty. I could care less what your warranty is or who built it. To suggest that only reputable shops offer warranties is ludicrous. I called around and spoke to many shops and 90 days was the avg with no power add unless they did the install and tune. Then some offered better. Does that make them better? NO. Vengeance doesnt even build their own engines. They most likely had it made by SDPC who had it made by someone else. Thats what I've seen from them in the past so thats why I say that. Nothing wrong with it, they're a speed shop not engine builders.

But mis a shift bend some valves and see if you get free parts and service.
Have it tuned by an idiot and detonate the **** out of it and see if they cover it.

Each vendor sets their own policy. If you dont like it then go elswhere, but presume to tell someone how to run their business because you want it your way.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

I don't disagree with any of that. But I wouldn't buy a motor from a shop that didn't offer SOME kind of warranty. Might as well learn to do it yourself at that point. Not having to worry about major failures for a year is nice I must admit though. The first three months I had my motor I barely put 2k on it.

99blancoSS

iTrader: (115)

cant agree with you here, I see a few idiotic arguments so I have to think they're from an idiot

and an ls7 is only 300 more and is not on back order and did not have an issue with being defective

1000hp, in case you dont know, thats the limit of most of the cranks used on this board as well so again its fully within the power spectrum of 99.9 percent of this board. Did you actualy ask them why they wouldnt? Whats the issue?

You got me there, but let me ask you one simple question. WHO IN THE **** IS BUILDING A 2500 HP STREET CAR to run on pump gas?

See you have potential and then you have reality.

I'm done with this thread, I wont argue about it. I dont care what you or anyone else does.

You guys know more than GM does and how to build the best engine ever and apparently your right and GM is wrong. Thats all I need to know.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

cant agree with you here, I see a few idiotic arguments so I have to think they're from an idiot

Some are, so let them be.


and an ls7 is only 300 more and is not on back order and did not have an issue with being defective

Did they ever confirm the backorder problem to be a cast defect, or are you speculating? Granted they're hard to find right now, but I think that will change soon. I have mine, I'm not worried.


1000hp, in case you dont know, thats the limit of most of the cranks used on this board as well so again its fully within the power spectrum of 99.9 percent of this board. Did you actualy ask them why they wouldnt? Whats the issue?

Never really heard of any of the cranks on this forum break period. But I keep hearing the word "block" thrown around in my phone conversations and not crank, so I'm assuming this is the weak point. But no, I didn't ask, I assumed. Just to be clear.

You got me there, but let me ask you one simple question. WHO IN THE **** IS BUILDING A 2500 HP STREET CAR to run on pump gas?

See you have potential and then you have reality.

I'm done with this thread, I wont argue about it. I dont care what you or anyone else does.

You guys know more than GM does and how to build the best engine ever and apparently your right and GM is wrong. Thats all I need to know.

Gm doesn't build their cars to produce maximum horsepower, or to one specific type of driving application. IE road racing, drag, etc.

They build them with reliability, gas mileage and OVERALL performance in mind. Even the C5R, it's not meant to produce maximum power. It's a Le Mans car. They use the block that best suits their application. Simple as that.

As for a 2500hp street car, yes there are people making them. I'm sure you've heard of NRE's motor... Quicken jocks them pretty hard.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...&highlight=nre

Robin L

You guys are giving me a headache jeez...

The LSX block was designed and intended to be the FOUNDATION for high horsepower LS Series engines. To that extent your not going to make everyone happy, therefore you are free to make the modifications that you feel are needed to support your goals. Again it's not intended to address everyones desires. It's a good foundation.
That being said this is a case where the LSX block is serious overkill. Many of the sponsors on this site are capable of building reliable combination based on several choices of OEM Blocks.

Robin

jcoker

iTrader: (17)

I added the dyno sheet to my previous post on page 2 but its a little hard to read.

SS Enforcer

I was having a chat with a guy here in Sydney regarding his big $$$ LSX iron block build in his GTO/Monaro. He is very happy with the final result but the machining costs alone set him back a small fortune. That was his biggest complaint the amount of machine work to get the LSX block up to scratch. Told me next time it's a resleeve job on an aluminum block no more iron for him.

As for warranties I can't see how any shop could warrant a built motor that is being raced regularly at the strip or around acircuit. Maybe just for the odd pass really flat shifting on the limiter isn't doing anything much good. I have however seen workshops pitch in with some free labour and free/cheap parts to get a racer going who has had some misfortune.

cheers

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

The absolute most I'd expect from a shop is to cover anything related to the actual machining and assembly of the motor...like if it drank too much oil, or had poor oil pressure. Even then, it'd be a gamble for them if they didn't supervise or do the break-in themselves. Really, if they just cut you a deal on fixing it I'd think that would be fair in this application.

You can't prevent the end-user's stupidity. If you want some of that, just go to the Newb Section and look at the incredibly long thread about why everyone should run 87 octane in their LS1 engines. There are people out there that just don't listen to reason.

And as far as using the LSX block...for this user, Robin L is right on the money. It is way too much in the overkill department. It is nice to have a large factor of safety, but that is just ridiculous.

OneQuickCoupe

iTrader: (1)

That is interesting. What other machine work did your Monaro friend's LSX block require other than bore, hone and deck that drove the cost up?

D.J.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Word to the word. Finally someone who thinks like me. And with the intakes avalible,(for the money ), the cathedrals have the potential to make more.


I think you summed the problems with your motor up right there. I'm not sure who sleeved your motor, but you don't M.I.D. sleeve a LS6 block. You don't really sleeve a LS6 block for anything other than factory liner replacement. These days, the dry sleeve LS2/7 motors are proving to be the way to go for sub 700 hp builds. Sure for 1000+ hp, you will want to go with a LS1 MID block or a LSX, but but how many of us are out for 1000 hp? As for the cost, the dry LS2 is only around $2800, which was not much considering the 125lb.'s I saved by staying aluminum. Not to mention you get the ability to run a longer stroke with the longer sleeves that come in the sleeved blocks. If your extremely budget oriented, and the $800 bucks is gunna break your build, then the LSX will save you a few bucks for a big cube build, but other than that, it's a dry sleeved LS2 with LS7 liners for almost everything I reccomend.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

I talked to you about this, Beast. We did not go over the motor I was running, however. We only went over yours. MID sleeves were touch and go back when my block was sleeved. I actually had dry liners, the same ones they used on the viper blocks, etc. I think it's a 4.250 diameter sleeve.

I didn't know sleeved ls2 blocks were only $2800, how much are the MID LS1 blocks these days? They used to be a pretty penny.

I think a lot of people on this forum ARE really budget oriented. Personally, I set aside so much for my build. If I end up going over that, my car literally sits until I can spare more money to finish. I'm only 25 and work full time with my share of bills to pay, and all that needs to come first before the car obviously. I looked for the cheapest way to get the bore and stroke I wanted with the reliability to hold the amount of power I want. (1000 - 1100 bhp)

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

MID LS based blocks are still around $3500. I understand on the bill thing, it's why my car still isn't running. I think we mentioned the LSX being the way to go for your build. However, this guy is only looking for 500-550 rwhp, so the aluminum block will be fine for him.

jermzz

iTrader: (18)

For sure. I recommended a lsx 454 simply for the fact that 1, I don't think a 500rwhp 402 ls2 in a full weight street fbody will pull on a c6z. 2, 550 hp with an lsx block 454 will be more tame then a 550+ 402 which is the amount of power I believe you'll need to start fending off a new z06. 3, if being radical is not a problem, extreme 454s are doing over 600rw, which even in a 3800lb car, will walk all over a new z06.

This was of course considering he wants to stay NA. He stated he wants OVER 550rw.

NewLS1er

I think its just a sig, because its been more than a year now.

NewLS1er

Well, simply put, the shop doing the machining sucks.

A builder near me just did an LSX iron block, 430ci with a big single turbo, and the machining was nothing more than a bore and a hone and put the ****** together. Now the engine is in a Grand National and 6 second passes is what they expect. Its been running low 7's for 2 years.


Noone said a dedicated road race or drag car should have a great warranty. But there's shops out there that are the best in the business (LPE, MTI) that offer 2yr/24,000 mile warranties on N/A engines, they don't care what you do with them. They won't know anyway if it blew while drag racing at a track.

A shop that offers no warranty at all......if they install and tune it especially......sucks, PERIOD.