New LT1 for 2014 6.2l alum block
12-15-2012, 12:21 PM
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Hints are laced throughout this thread.
Bigg Gunz
12-15-2012, 12:22 PM
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12-15-2012, 01:04 PM
#463
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Big Gunnz - It's great to hear about this hi tech machine, but one wonders if you've out kicked the coverage, or specifically what about the training and level of expertise for dealer techs? You keep stressing safety when working on this motor, but and that goes for dealer techs as well.
12-15-2012, 01:09 PM
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First off, thank you for taking the time to fill us in all of this great information.
I dont know if you will be at liberty to say, but ill ask anyway, any chance the 4.3 might end up in something like the gen camaro? like warshrike, im big on the whole V6 performance thing and would really like to see what this motor will be capable of in something other than a 3 ton truck.
Not that i have anything against the LFX 3.6, 320 hp is impressive, but that car could be so much more impressive when powered with something that has a decent torque band. Im sorry, but my cammed 3800 that traps 98 mph, should not make a 3.6 camaro look like an absolute joke from a 50 roll.
I dont know if you will be at liberty to say, but ill ask anyway, any chance the 4.3 might end up in something like the gen camaro? like warshrike, im big on the whole V6 performance thing and would really like to see what this motor will be capable of in something other than a 3 ton truck.
Not that i have anything against the LFX 3.6, 320 hp is impressive, but that car could be so much more impressive when powered with something that has a decent torque band. Im sorry, but my cammed 3800 that traps 98 mph, should not make a 3.6 camaro look like an absolute joke from a 50 roll.
12-15-2012, 01:43 PM
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Big Gunnz - It's great to hear about this hi tech machine, but one wonders if you've out kicked the coverage, or specifically what about the training and level of expertise for dealer techs? You keep stressing safety when working on this motor, but and that goes for dealer techs as well.
What I've stated on this particular thread is noted and on par with my acting directors/superiors as I have limited ability to speak freely. Which is why I "sound like a robot or insensitive." There are key levels of dark opacity with dealing with critical components and output that I am not allowed to elaborate on with in the ECM and functioning systems with the 2014 LT1 due to proprietary processes.
Key level mechanical techs within certain dealerships will have to undergo additional training in order to understand, detect, and render solutions if any occur dealing with these engines and engine management systems. However under some extreme or unforeseen events if they occur, the "vehicle".... if located at a service center can communicate with our servers through a establish data link.
When I say safety first, I mean its for your personal safety and that of your investment. As for working on the engine I do NOT recommend tampering with fuel system physically or electronically.
Bigg Gunz
12-15-2012, 01:51 PM
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First off, thank you for taking the time to fill us in all of this great information.
I dont know if you will be at liberty to say, but ill ask anyway, any chance the 4.3 might end up in something like the gen camaro? like warshrike, im big on the whole V6 performance thing and would really like to see what this motor will be capable of in something other than a 3 ton truck.
Not that i have anything against the LFX 3.6, 320 hp is impressive, but that car could be so much more impressive when powered with something that has a decent torque band. Im sorry, but my cammed 3800 that traps 98 mph, should not make a 3.6 camaro look like an absolute joke from a 50 roll.
I dont know if you will be at liberty to say, but ill ask anyway, any chance the 4.3 might end up in something like the gen camaro? like warshrike, im big on the whole V6 performance thing and would really like to see what this motor will be capable of in something other than a 3 ton truck.
Not that i have anything against the LFX 3.6, 320 hp is impressive, but that car could be so much more impressive when powered with something that has a decent torque band. Im sorry, but my cammed 3800 that traps 98 mph, should not make a 3.6 camaro look like an absolute joke from a 50 roll.
The engine is extremely flexible due to the performance output is has, I would tell you expect to see this engine is a range of vehicles from performance to work duty trucks/suv. VVT is all about moving the torque around the RPM band.
Bigg Gunz
12-15-2012, 01:54 PM
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The biggest hint seems to be in the following paragraph:
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
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Not only GM but other automakers are producing more advanced systems to control cars and this is because they have to make cars more efficient. I really hope those within the dealership and even at home, does what it takes to stay current in technology of these vehicles.
The person or company that learn these technologies within these engines will soon find a niche in the market. That would erupt with opportunity and vast wealth.
Bigg Gunz
12-15-2012, 02:08 PM
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The biggest hint seems to be in the following paragraph:
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
Cheers
12-15-2012, 02:15 PM
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The biggest hint seems to be in the following paragraph:
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
"Now in VVC all the cam spec parameters are changing constantly and to deal with this you have to a detail understanding of all systems you have to be a subject matter expert no question about it. You will see this in the LARGER MORE POWERFUL VERSION of the 2014 LT1. Which will have the CAM in CAM system, this is extremely complex as they're are cam phasing, cam lobe switching, and true variable duration."
Last time I heard cam lobe switching was in the new Impala IVLC system with discrete, high lift low lift operation, as seen in this GM briefing:
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...takevalve.html
But that was DOHC and discrete. If I were to interpret these hints I would come to the conclusion that version 2 will be an OHV arrangement with continuous lift. In that case I will eat beans/rice/bread for a year and buy the version 2.
Talking about lace, as a man living in a woman's world I've been disillusioned at times in interpreting hints. Give this guy a break.
Bigg Gunz
Last edited by Bigg_Gunz; 12-15-2012 at 02:26 PM.
12-15-2012, 02:27 PM
#472
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another question for you, i noticed you said these motors will eventually be sold as crate motors with an available ECM to go with it. will that ECM be tuneable or just plug n play? i dont know much about tuning a VVT engine, but wouldnt it make sense to be able to tune that one, seeing as one person might want it to put in an older f-body, and another for an older pick up. both will need a some what different setup depending on the appliction.
12-15-2012, 02:55 PM
#473
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Bigg Gunnz,
I have a few questions...
1.) I read the entire thread. Am I correct when I say that one of the most important things for us as enthusiasts to get out of this is that the new ECM makes it EASIER for us to bolt on performance upgrades to the engine?
For example, bolt on a nice set of headers and free flowing intake and the ECM automatically will "adjust/retune" itself for this? Meaning there is no need for a retune to grab that horsepower like on the lsx engines? You just instantly gain 40rwhp.
2.) Previous lsx engines were detuned, and that's where a huge tuning aftermarket was born from. But with the fuel tables locked, will there be a way for enthusiasts to grab those few extra horsepower from this engine other than just bolt ons like previously mentioned? Or are these not coming from the factory detuned?
3.) Is anything being done with gearing in the rear ends of vehicles with these engines to take advantage of afm? For instance, an afm truck with 4.11 gears will stay in 4 cylinder mode much longer than a truck with 3.42 gearing due to the torque multiplication. Is this something we should expect to see?
I have a few questions...
1.) I read the entire thread. Am I correct when I say that one of the most important things for us as enthusiasts to get out of this is that the new ECM makes it EASIER for us to bolt on performance upgrades to the engine?
For example, bolt on a nice set of headers and free flowing intake and the ECM automatically will "adjust/retune" itself for this? Meaning there is no need for a retune to grab that horsepower like on the lsx engines? You just instantly gain 40rwhp.
2.) Previous lsx engines were detuned, and that's where a huge tuning aftermarket was born from. But with the fuel tables locked, will there be a way for enthusiasts to grab those few extra horsepower from this engine other than just bolt ons like previously mentioned? Or are these not coming from the factory detuned?
3.) Is anything being done with gearing in the rear ends of vehicles with these engines to take advantage of afm? For instance, an afm truck with 4.11 gears will stay in 4 cylinder mode much longer than a truck with 3.42 gearing due to the torque multiplication. Is this something we should expect to see?
12-15-2012, 06:22 PM
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12-16-2012, 03:32 AM
#479
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The current "ECU" is actually a collection of disparate controllers. There are subsystems for things like electronic throttle control etc as separate from the actual calibration settings. The ETC is already now a liability zone. Imagine if you could recal so that 5% TPS = 100% WOT, granny's car would be a death trap.
So locking tuners out of the injector tables wont be so bad if they never need changing. As long as we can change commanded AFR then thats a good start. Custom MAF's can alter fueling already.
GM is dreaming if they think there wont be any ways and means of changing/tricking this. Piggyback anyone!? http://www.unichipeurope.co.uk/4/Unichip_features/
I guess as far as EPA and DOJ liabilities for stuff they are hoping to be well covered though and thats the main thing.
So locking tuners out of the injector tables wont be so bad if they never need changing. As long as we can change commanded AFR then thats a good start. Custom MAF's can alter fueling already.
GM is dreaming if they think there wont be any ways and means of changing/tricking this. Piggyback anyone!? http://www.unichipeurope.co.uk/4/Unichip_features/
I guess as far as EPA and DOJ liabilities for stuff they are hoping to be well covered though and thats the main thing.
12-16-2012, 09:19 AM
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Bigg Gunnz,
I have a few questions...
1.) I read the entire thread. Am I correct when I say that one of the most important things for us as enthusiasts to get out of this is that the new ECM makes it EASIER for us to bolt on performance upgrades to the engine?That would be correct within a degree/limit of the "BOLT on's"
For example, bolt on a nice set of headers and free flowing intake and the ECM automatically will "adjust/retune" itself for this? Meaning there is no need for a retune to grab that horsepower like on the lsx engines? You just instantly gain 40rwhp.
2.) Previous lsx engines were detuned, and that's where a huge tuning aftermarket was born from. But with the fuel tables locked, will there be a way for enthusiasts to grab those few extra horsepower from this engine other than just bolt ons like previously mentioned? Or are these not coming from the factory detuned? 1. There is absolutely NOTHING complicated about the LS1, LS2, LS3, LS7 etc... the physics of these engines are basic and highly simple. The 2014 LT1 operates on a different level of physics called, "bernoulli's Law." As I've stated before....in this thread and yes there is horsepower left on the table in 2014 LT1. However throwing more fuel into the cylinders and throwing some ridiculous cam duration isn't going to get you there. Poorly executed modifications will have a detrimental effect on performance as well as mechanical and electronic components. I REPEAT what use to work on older engines will not WORK on these engines.
3.) Is anything being done with gearing in the rear ends of vehicles with these engines to take advantage of afm? For instance, an afm truck with 4.11 gears will stay in 4 cylinder mode much longer than a truck with 3.42 gearing due to the torque multiplication. Is this something we should expect to see?
I have a few questions...
1.) I read the entire thread. Am I correct when I say that one of the most important things for us as enthusiasts to get out of this is that the new ECM makes it EASIER for us to bolt on performance upgrades to the engine?That would be correct within a degree/limit of the "BOLT on's"
For example, bolt on a nice set of headers and free flowing intake and the ECM automatically will "adjust/retune" itself for this? Meaning there is no need for a retune to grab that horsepower like on the lsx engines? You just instantly gain 40rwhp.
2.) Previous lsx engines were detuned, and that's where a huge tuning aftermarket was born from. But with the fuel tables locked, will there be a way for enthusiasts to grab those few extra horsepower from this engine other than just bolt ons like previously mentioned? Or are these not coming from the factory detuned? 1. There is absolutely NOTHING complicated about the LS1, LS2, LS3, LS7 etc... the physics of these engines are basic and highly simple. The 2014 LT1 operates on a different level of physics called, "bernoulli's Law." As I've stated before....in this thread and yes there is horsepower left on the table in 2014 LT1. However throwing more fuel into the cylinders and throwing some ridiculous cam duration isn't going to get you there. Poorly executed modifications will have a detrimental effect on performance as well as mechanical and electronic components. I REPEAT what use to work on older engines will not WORK on these engines.
3.) Is anything being done with gearing in the rear ends of vehicles with these engines to take advantage of afm? For instance, an afm truck with 4.11 gears will stay in 4 cylinder mode much longer than a truck with 3.42 gearing due to the torque multiplication. Is this something we should expect to see?
Bigg Gunz