Normally I'm not one to complain, but I just want to put this out here so everyone knows about it. I am in no way trying to push business away from TSP. I have gotten good parts at good prices from them in the past, but lately a few things have happened that bothered me enough to feel the need to share.

Over the summer, I ordered as set of TSP LTs for a customer car. They were stainless steel 1 3/4 headers that I'm sure a lot of you have seen and are probably running on your car. Installation was hell. I had to lower the k-member (which I half expected anyway) and actually had to cut away a good chunk of it to even get the drivers side header to slide up into the car. Normally I wouldn't cut at the k member, but we planned to add a tubular one into this car at a later date (but that's beside the point). Once the headers were finally in, I went up top to bolt them to the heads. After bolting everything up, I noticed that the Primaries on the drivers side header were slammed against the steering shaft in two spots. It was bad enough that turning the steering wheel was not only difficult, but the bolt on the shaft instantly notched the header. I contacted TSP and sent pics only to get the run-around and nothing actually came of it. They in no way offered help or even an apology for selling me a **** product. The customer, eager to get his car done, decided (against what I told him) to cut the bolt down enough to clear, and is just dealing with the shaft rubbing the header.

Next, I was taking the passenger head off of this same car last week and could barely get the head off of the dowels because of how close the passenger header was to the head after taking the bolts out. The primaries on both headers were just made too long, simply put.

Figuring that this was an isolated incident, I didn't say anything about it. But now, I get a call from a friend of mine in Ohio (goes by the name 'ripinls1' on here) saying that he had the exact same issues only he actually had to dent in the firewall in one spot for clearance! He dealt with the same person at TSP that I did, and yet again, no help was offered. It's like "here's a shitty product guys, good luck! You're on your own now!"

I also installed their xpipe setup. As you will be able to see from the pics, it didn't fit at all! I'm sure it was due to the headers being made so crappy, but just driving the car to the exhaust shop to have them bend it in place destroyed one of the pipes (pics below).

again, I am not trying to push business from TSP. I have never had issues with any of their other products, but these headers are cheap for a reason. They use low quality stainless steel and the headers just do not fit right.

Pics will be attached

 

 

I'm in no way affiliated with TSP what so ever but I have direct (and often) experience with a lot of the gripes in this thread so I'll shed some light..

I can tell you from my own experience that you definitely get your moneys worth with their stainless header vs. some of the others on the market. I can name some very well known stainless headers that are an absolute nightmare to install and often require grinding in the same exact spot on the drivers side and they're 3x the price.

It's also very possible that motor mount sag is an issue. I install anywhere from 20-40 sets of headers a year and typically have a lot of these issues on cars using stock rubber mounts. Namely the steering knuckle issue. Also, you do not have to lower the k-member to install the driver's side. Disconnecting the motor mount from the frame and raising up the engine a little with a jack while simultaneously pulling steering knuckle will allow them to go in.

Almost every longtube header on the market is going to be in the way when trying to remove the cylinder heads. Especially on a GEN 3 engine with the long head bolts. This really isn't a legitimate gripe towards their product, more so just a lack of experience & not knowing the header is going to be in the way if it's still in the engine bay and/or still connected to the exhaust.

The TSP true duals do fit. Albeit not very well on some rare occasion and are sometimes a MAJOR pain in the *** to get in place but they'll eventually work themselves in there fine. It takes time, sometimes a lot of time. Your pictures of the scrapes are typical. Anyone installing a true dual system on a 4th gen F-body should know right off the bat that they're going to have terrible ground clearance. That is a nature of the beast if you want dual 3" pipes underneath a floor pan that was not designed for them. Yet I do think this is something TSP should better clarify on their website. **Edit: Just looked at one of your pictures. That drivers side can be raised quite a bit with some tweaks in the rest of the piping.


Again, I'm not affiliated with TSP at all but I deal with a lot of the gripes in this thread on a regular basis so I felt I should share my experiences. I do think that TSP should put some more vocal disclaimers on some of their products so the DIY'ers will be more prepared for what they're getting themselves into. For the money, TSP offers some of the best stuff out there for the hot rodder on a budget that can't afford $1000 headers. That's coming from another shop owner that is a direct competitor in terms of offering performance upgrade services in the southeastern US.


Cheers.

 

This is a great post. Lots of good information, some constructive criticism and helpful in-general. Refreshing to see. Nice job.

 

Thank you. I'm becoming much less of an ******* in my old age.

 

Don't kid yourself

 

How is raising the engine any different than lowering the kmember? The headers were hitting the body of the car while also hitting the kmember so in this case raising the engine would not have been enough.

Every car I have take the heads off of has had after market headers and they have never been in the way.

They clearly didn't this time.

I know a handful of people that have been able to install this system without any issues, that's why I ordered it for this car. However, this system did NOT fit in this car. We ended up having to rebend some of the tubing to make it clear.

While I appreciate your input greatly, it seems more and more that people try their hardest to defend TSP just because they hold such a big name in the LS community. The fact of the matter is, if your product don't fit, don't sell them. I have never had this many issues installing an exhuast system on a car. I understand that things are sold cheaply for a reason, but this was ridiculous, and the fact that there was literally NO support from their customer service to me or the others that I have talked to that had the same issues is bullshit.

 

These headers DO fit, there are many people on this board that can attest to this. We worked very hard to make sure the headers will fit on a properly maintained vehicle. At this point these cars are getting old and motor mount sag is a very common problem. It is something we have to deal with a lot due to the fact that we built and designed these headers on a properly maintained car. If you fix the motor mounts I bet most of these issues would not be a problem.

The true duals also fit on these cars as well. One thing you should realize is that this is all mandrel bent stuff on a jig. It doesn't change, but the cars sure do. Once again if the motor mounts are a problem everything is going to get thrown off. It also takes a certain amount of time and elbow grease depending on the setup. Any professional installer knows that exhaust sometimes take some tweaking to make work. Just by looking at those pictures I can see where a little time and effort might have had the true duals straddling the torque arm better to where those clearance issues might not be as bad.

I apologize you experienced issues installing these products but many people have been able to do so with little issues.

 

I have no dog in this fight sir nor am I trying to "defend TSP". I couldn't really care less. But a lot of your experiences are common and easily remedied with a few tweaks. Of course every car varies, especially the 4th gen F-body which as a whole platform had serious quality control issues so every case is different.

I'm done in this one. I'll let TSP take over and handle it since this is their product, not mine.

 

going to agree with the above. after dozens of various header installs. 99% of the problem is 10+ yr old saggy motor mounts.

 

I understand that worn engine mounts can cause an issue. If you look at the pictures I posted, I know it's a little hard to see, but if the header were up any higher, it would be hitting the steering shaft even MORE than it all ready did. Therefore, an engine mount "sagging" would actually be beneficial on this particular situation. Like I said, I'm not trying to push business away from you guys, just sharing my experience. What pissed me off the most about this whole thing is the lack of customer service. Until this thread got posted, I didn't get as much as an apology. Not saying that I deserve one by any means. Also, as I said, I was going to let this go completely and assume it was an isolated incident until I had a few other people call me talking about the same issue and worse. I have never had an issue with the 1 7/8's headers, but somehow multiple people are having issues with the 1 3/4? Something just doesn't jive there.

I have the cheapest set of pacesetter headers you can buy on my car and they come in and out with no issues and have plenty of "wiggle" room in the engine bay.

 

Just had another friend contact me saying he had the same issue with the 1 3/4 headers. He also had just installed new poly motor mounts that day. I guess that cancels out that.

 

I installed a set of tsp 1 3/4 headers on a friends 00 SS. It would not clear the steering shaft at all.
We had to drive it without the bolt to my exhaust guy. Mind u the shaft was rubbing hard on the header. And he had to heat and make a huge dimple in order for ot to clear. Car on stock k

I also just installed a set of 1 7/8 tsp headers and they have a lot of room and clear the shaft perfectly.car on umi rr tubular k

 

I know for a fact that this car hasn't been in a wreck. I've known the guy that owns it for a while and he bought it with like 20k miles as the second owner and it had a clean carfax.

I do have another set of headers, but as the car is not mine, I can't take time to take them off of his car and do a comparison side by side.

 

Just talked to another friend that had the same issue.. TSP, are you guys planning on doing anything about this, or just let people buy and hope theirs fit?

 

you can talk to everyone in the world and itll mean nothing still.... tell them to post up with pics and express their concerns.

 

We take into account every issue or concern that is brought to us and address it accordingly with the manufacturer. Problem in this particular situation is we have sold hundreds of these headers and have had next to no issues. So how do you explain something working for 100 guys but doesn't for 2 or 3? Now Im not saying that improvements can't be made. We are always looking to make the products we offer better. Unfortunately in this particular situation it just doesn't make since that they work for so many yet they must be junk because they don't work on yours. I apologize for the inconvenience you have had to deal with. I think the point has been made your not a fan of us, and you don't like the headers. All that needs to be said has been said.

 

Or u guys can take a look at the jig that puts these together or cuts them. It can be off. Or maybe u guys had a bad batch. It happens.

Your response above just says a big **** you.

 

gotta agree here. i wasnt expecting a response like that from you guys. I've literally bought every part for my car through you guys. all my 408 parts, my th400, my 9" and my entire suspension. customer service is everything to me whenever i had a problem i called and it was fixed immediately.

seeing a post like that makes me question whether or not if a problem arises if i should bother calling. or even bother with ordering through TSP

 

I don't see a problem with above post. We know situations like this happen and address the concerns and issues as they arise. I apologized before for the inconvenience the customer dealt with, but when so many others fit these cars fine, most likely there was other issues at play. Regardless we look into the situation and make any necessary changes needed. No matter what brand of headers fitment issues can and will happen due to factors such as age, and condition of the surrounding parts. We apologize if the post came across wrong, we strive to offer the best customer service in the industry.