SVC707

iTrader: (33)

i was going to order my motor from a&a but at first he seemed willing to help me but then later at the end of the conversation he tells me i dont sound serious. i emailed and called and he said he would get me some info and pricing but never heard back kept saying he would. as you can see in my sig i ordered from LME, im glad i did. sorry about the mishaps

00turboT/A

iTrader: (61)

That suck good luck with getting it fixed.

Mr_president

iTrader: (38)

i think that they should replace it 100% ..i called them just to see about getting a tune a while ago and the guy was an a**hole he was saying "oooh we only work on corvetts"
i was like WTF?? its an ls1 anyway confused ! well none the less im getting it tuned at synergy, there better i here anyway! never heard one bad complaint about them!

i hope this works out for you frost i know exactly how you feel and im sure befor you know it it will all be panned out!
Good LUCK

ABeasst

iTrader: (5)

I hope it is a problem on A&A's end and not CAM's, but judging from the past it wouldnt suprise me if it was CAM.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

HA! Come on, man... you should know the LS1's are different from Vettes to F-body's... One LS1 has eight misfit dwarves hammering away at the pistons and the other LS1 has angels trumpeting wrathful melodies into the chambers to create combustion. The HEAVENLY MOTOR fee is right there on the window sticker when you buy a Vette.

Darren P

iTrader: (1)

Frost Dude that really sucks
it kinda makes you back up and think really hard about how bad you want a fast car




um ok not really

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

A&A even a Sponsor on here???? I dont see them???

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I don't see their logo, but they absolutely, 100% were at the time of purchase...

-still haven't heard back from Andy...

stevieturbo

I only recently seen the A&A name pop up here as a poster, so dont think they ever were a sponsor. ???

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Frost do u have threads like this on other sites they are sponsors of??? Have they seen them or replied yet??

stevieturbo

I just pm'd them over on the C5 forum to make them aware of this post. Over there, thei reputation seems second to none, so its perhaps a little unfair to be discussing without allowing them to have their say.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

I always thought they were a sponsor...

Frost

iTrader: (45)

A few things here...

stevieturbo- don't try and make **** where there is none; this thread was solely to find out who may have been in a similar situation and how things were handled. This is NOT an A&A bashing thread. Also, regardless of your what you may think, they were a sponsor from the time I joined early last summer. They were a sponsor when I ordered from them.

I was told outside of this thread by another person that they had sent a PM on 'another' forum this morning.

I am not looking for a response from Andy here, I sent an email. Like I said, I wanted to get a feel for others who had something similar happen, as well as get a feeling from users what they would think to be reasonable.

Thanks for reading.

kp

iTrader: (34)

This isnt FI related and since A&A was a sponsor I'll put the thread here. As usual unless anyone has had direct dealings with A&A on this matter please dont take this off topic.

CorvetteAndy

iTrader: (4)

I just got the first email about this last night and knew nothing about this thread until someone called me about it.
I've talked to the guys at CAM and told them to send it to me with the pan and timing cover still on the engine.
If there is no evidence of an oil pump "O" ring out of place, pump screen jammed against the bottom of the pan, oil pump spacers on backwards, contamination introduced from an oil cooler or old oil pump pickup screen, or any of the many other things that can happen during an installation, I'll replace or rebuild the motor at no charge AND help with the install.
Even if I DO find one of the above mentioned errors, I'll STILL replace or rebuild the motor at NO CHARGE but not help with the install labor. How much fairer than that can I be?
I'll tell you what happened with the last motor that I had a problem with. I sent it to a guy in Texas. He has a shop there install it and it has low oil pressure.
I send him a new short block with no questions asked. I paid shipping both ways.
The old motor comes back to me almost 3 months later and is filthy.
I clean all the crap out of the bores and set it up on my stand. I put an oil pan etc on it and spin the motor with the starter. It has 50+ lbs of pressure.
I have it completely disassembled, cleaned, measured and reassembled. Not a single part was changed.
I sold that motor at a discount and installed it in a customers car a month or so later. It made about 600 RWHP and had no issues whatsoever. It's still running just fine.
It was definately an installation error. Maybe an oil pump "O" ring or one of the other things I mentioned above. I STILL replaced the motor at no charge.
That's just the way I run my business. It's just the right thing to do.
The only thing I didn't do was pay the install labor. I also think that was fair.
After this experience, I just want to make sure I get the motor back in a timely manner and have an honest chance to see what really happened.
Whether it's something that we did or not, we still need to find out exactly what happened to make sure it doesn't happen again.
In the last few years I've done just shy of 150 LS based engines. Sure, I've had a couple of problems, but I've taken care of EVERY one of them.
I've even sent replacement engines to guys (well, one, anyway) that never even sent the old one back!
Tuners have to be careful they are not totally taken advantage of, too.
Guys get on the internet and think if they badmouth someone or threaten to, that they can just get anything they want. Fair or not.
Diamond made a change in the piston design last year. The return holes in the oil ring ara were made much smaller. I had 12 engines that I installed that burned oil. It was quite a while before we figured out what the deal was.
I have taken out and rebuilt 11 of those engines at no charge, PARTS or LABOR. I have 1 more to do. I'll do that one at no charge too.
Again, that's the way I run my business and will continue to.
This engine in question will be dealt with in the fairest manner possible. No dragging it out or any other BS.
He actually mentioned in his email that he might be interested in moving up to a 402. No problem. My fault or not, I'll give him FULL credit towards the 402.
The only thing in question is the installation labor.
As for "TondSS" This kid calls and started trying to tell ME how to tune the car in speed density. He tried to get me to give him a big discount on the tune because other guys were "sponsoring" him. When I told him that we only work on Corvettes and that I wasn't interested in "sponsoring" him he started to try to work me on the price of the tune.
I have 21 Corvettes at the shop and at least a 2 month waiting list of Corvettes that are willing to wait to get the work done right.
I should let him come in and bully me around on prices? I don't think so.
We'll gladly tune F Bodies, but I won't have kids that think they know more than I do grind me on the prices and be rude to me on the phone. I have better things to do.
You tell me. Is this fair to all involved, or not?
Andy

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I don't know if that was in reference to my posts or other posters, but that was not my intent at all. I just wanted to see if I could get a feel for how things would be handled based on the experience of others. I also get PM'd here and there asking about progress, and since the rest of the buildup has been posted here, so has this snag. I have heard nothing but praise for A&A and that's why I sent you my money for the engine.

By the way, this was started in the FI section, where the rest of my build stuff was posted. This thread was not meant to be a (previous) sponsor-complaint-bash kind of thing.

=edit=

Should have said, it's absolutely fair to all involved, thanks Andy.

minty

wow, I am VERY impressed with A&A....

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Solid response by A&A.

ADMIN

CorvetteAndy

iTrader: (4)

Actually I was referring to "BUY AMERICAN" and his comment. Do you really think if there were a dozen motors that had gone south that EVERYONE wouldn't know about it?
It was his buddy that never sent back the old engine that I replaced with a new one. I'm sure it was his idea to screw me again.
I sold his buddy a used engine from someone elses car that, admittedly (but unbeknownst to me) was an LS1 block, not an LS6 block. I am totally guilty of not checking it out.
When he started his KB 402 build they found out that this was the case. I realized my error and sent him a BRAND NEW forged LS6 short block to replace the used one at no charge. I just wanted the old one back to salvage the rods, pistons etc. I get not so much as a " thank you". A month later I find out that they allegedly threw the old engine away. So who's wrong in this situation? I think I did the right thing, as I always strive to do.
As for Mr BUY AMERICAN himself, here's how I see it..
I built him a 427 with a stock cam so that he could pass smog. It ran fine and passed smog with flying colors.
Months later they put a big cam in the car and can't get it tuned. After the tuner spends a huge amount of time on it, they come to the conclusion that I built the motor with so much compression that it was impossible to tune.
They calculate it at 14:1 or so. I figured it at about 12:1. Remember. it ran fine and passed smog until they put the big cam.
I give him heads with lower compression, gaeskets etc. pay for all the labor to diagnose it and tune it and other expenses. It's been a long time but I think I gave him about a grand plus all the parts. Again, I think I did the right thing. (Even though I thoroughly believe the problem was not in the heads, maybe a cam misaligned or something)
A year and a half later I get a call from another tuner who has his car on the dyno and his headers are "glowing red" He wants to know what I think.
We discuss a couple of things related to timing, fuel etc. It's definately not a faulty engine that makes the headers "glow red"
Anyway, after a few dyno pulls like this, the engine starts knocking.
They pull it out and he calls me to see if I can help.
I told him I'd fix it at cost, which is exactly what I did.
I sent it to the machine shop I use and had the crank ground and polished, repaced the rod and main bearings, one rod, had the cylinders lightly honed, replaced the rings and had the balance checked for somewhere between $600 - $700. Not a complete engine rebuild, but get it in running order for minimal cost. I think I did him well.
As it turns out, the assembler broke a second ring and used one over. Maybe not what I would have preferred but certainly not detrimental to the performance of the engine.
Now he gets on the internet and tells everyone I sold him a NEW engine with used parts and continues, at every opportunity, to tell everyone how all my engines ( as well as my supercharger systems) are junk.
I'm really not sure what drives him to do this. After our first run in and subsequent dealings with repairing the engine, I thought we were good. He was at my party last year and seemed like a genuinely nice guy. I'm at a loss as to why he's pissed at me.
If I've mistated the facts here, feel free to straighten me out. This is exactly the way I recollect the facts to be. Not trying to "puff it up" or anything.
I'd really like to find out what the real problem is.
I've never been one to hold grudges, life's too short. I get over things quickly and move on.
I'd much rather run my business , make X amount of money and be the guy that everyone likes and respects than make 2X and be the bad guy. I don't think you'll find any legitimate customer that can argue that.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

From my edit above:


Should have said, it's absolutely fair to all involved, thanks Andy. I'll be in touch.