My dyno results are in.
07-27-2010, 06:34 PM
#43
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Highland, MI
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
that's gotta be the oddest looking cam/ head ls dyno graph I've ever seen 
Looks more like an s/c'd 3800. That's not a 50hp dip, thats more like 10hp. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tune. Did he try making changes to get rid of the dip? Any knock retard? Again, that is one odd looking graph. I would expect torque to peak between 4500-5000 rpm, not 2500-3000 rpm.
Looks more like an s/c'd 3800. That's not a 50hp dip, thats more like 10hp. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tune. Did he try making changes to get rid of the dip? Any knock retard? Again, that is one odd looking graph. I would expect torque to peak between 4500-5000 rpm, not 2500-3000 rpm.
07-27-2010, 07:44 PM
#44
that's gotta be the oddest looking cam/ head ls dyno graph I've ever seen Looks more like an s/c'd 3800. That's not a 50hp dip, thats more like 10hp. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tune. Did he try making changes to get rid of the dip? Any knock retard? Again, that is one odd looking graph. I would expect torque to peak between 4500-5000 rpm, not 2500-3000 rpm.
Looks more like an s/c'd 3800. That's not a 50hp dip, thats more like 10hp. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the tune. Did he try making changes to get rid of the dip? Any knock retard? Again, that is one odd looking graph. I would expect torque to peak between 4500-5000 rpm, not 2500-3000 rpm.I was thinking the torque curve came in WAY too early for those heads and that size of a cam in a 325.
07-28-2010, 11:15 AM
#45
TECH Regular
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Off the cuff, it looks like the TCC wasn't commanded to be locked during the pull and then it locked right at the end. IIRC, there is a WOT TCC lockup in 3rd gear above 120-130mph-ish... maybe that's what happened?
It's nice to see that 13:1 AFR too. Subjectively that feels the strongest up top to me.
I'd like to see your tune as well... I might steal your WOT timing.
It's nice to see that 13:1 AFR too. Subjectively that feels the strongest up top to me.
I'd like to see your tune as well... I might steal your WOT timing.
07-28-2010, 02:07 PM
#47
give me your email and i will send the tune to who ever. Yes we tried to tune it out everything we tried, failed. It was 103 degrees out and we were in a shop that was hotter.
That dyno run was in 2nd gear. The 3rd gear pulls gave lower results.
That dyno run was in 2nd gear. The 3rd gear pulls gave lower results.
07-28-2010, 02:22 PM
#48
Because 2nd has a higher torque multiplication. 3rd is 1:1 which is the true numbers. What were the numbers in 3rd?
Last edited by AlabamaGuy; 07-28-2010 at 03:31 PM.
07-28-2010, 03:45 PM
#49
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Highland, MI
Posts: 1,366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
nothing looks odd with the tune at first glance. Not as refined as I would like to see but not bad. Do you happen to have a scan? I wonder if it's getting KR up there.
07-29-2010, 06:36 PM
#55
07-29-2010, 07:27 PM
#56
Teching In
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: York, PA
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
07-30-2010, 12:32 PM
#57
TECH Regular
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Farmington Hills, MI
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sittingmongoose, JDMC5 forwarded me your tune. The one thing that stood out to me was that your Extreme Fuel Cutoff was still set to 6200RPM. Since your tuner disabled fuel cutoff and left throttle closing as your only rev limiting option, there might be something going on there but there might not.
Also, it looks to me like you have way too much advance. I didn't even try your tables because I know that they will knock, or at least be right on the verge at all times. It was encouraging to see that your tuner pumped up the same cells that I did though. He also raped the PE table and left the enrichment rate very low... but I did see in your dyno chart that he is tracking the desired AFR at least. Too bad you don't live closer to JDMC5, because he's starting to tune on the side.
Still, I have a few questions:
Was that an inertia dyno, or a brake (water-brake or eddy-current) dyno?
Did the tuner use the PID in HP Tuners to lock up the TCC before the pulls?
To me, it looks like the tuner did not command the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) to be locked before the pull. That's why your torque curve looks monsterous. Also, if it is an inertia dyno, than your acceleration rate in 3rd is much slower than in 2nd and you will get more driveline losses even though 3rd is a more efficient gear. With a brake dyno that controls the acceleration rate and a locked TCC getting rid of the torque converter's effects, your numbers would be closer to each other. By the way, I'm pretty sure that our tires are not rated for 188mph, so you risked a blowout by running up to that speed. 2nd is the safest gear to do dyno pulls in if you are revving the engine that high with stock tires.
@ 2nd Gear Dyno Pull Haters, the numbers that come out of a chassis dyno are doctored by the drive ratio, whatever it is. If they weren't, you would see torque numbers that would 2.93 times larger to reflect the actual torque at the wheels. Any competent dyno operator will punch in the overall gearing, meaning that they would use a 2.93 x 1.56 = 4.57 drive ratio when doing pulls in 2nd. Otherwise, you would expect his numbers in 2nd to be 1.56 times larger than in 3rd. Working backwards, his 329HP in 2nd would work out to 211HP in 3rd, not the 290ish he saw due to (I think) the slower acceleration rate with an unlocked converter. If you don't believe me, check out this Hot Rod article I dug up before I posted:
http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/hrdp_0...ide/index.html
Also, it looks to me like you have way too much advance. I didn't even try your tables because I know that they will knock, or at least be right on the verge at all times. It was encouraging to see that your tuner pumped up the same cells that I did though. He also raped the PE table and left the enrichment rate very low... but I did see in your dyno chart that he is tracking the desired AFR at least. Too bad you don't live closer to JDMC5, because he's starting to tune on the side.
Still, I have a few questions:
Was that an inertia dyno, or a brake (water-brake or eddy-current) dyno?
Did the tuner use the PID in HP Tuners to lock up the TCC before the pulls?
To me, it looks like the tuner did not command the Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) to be locked before the pull. That's why your torque curve looks monsterous. Also, if it is an inertia dyno, than your acceleration rate in 3rd is much slower than in 2nd and you will get more driveline losses even though 3rd is a more efficient gear. With a brake dyno that controls the acceleration rate and a locked TCC getting rid of the torque converter's effects, your numbers would be closer to each other. By the way, I'm pretty sure that our tires are not rated for 188mph, so you risked a blowout by running up to that speed. 2nd is the safest gear to do dyno pulls in if you are revving the engine that high with stock tires.
@ 2nd Gear Dyno Pull Haters, the numbers that come out of a chassis dyno are doctored by the drive ratio, whatever it is. If they weren't, you would see torque numbers that would 2.93 times larger to reflect the actual torque at the wheels. Any competent dyno operator will punch in the overall gearing, meaning that they would use a 2.93 x 1.56 = 4.57 drive ratio when doing pulls in 2nd. Otherwise, you would expect his numbers in 2nd to be 1.56 times larger than in 3rd. Working backwards, his 329HP in 2nd would work out to 211HP in 3rd, not the 290ish he saw due to (I think) the slower acceleration rate with an unlocked converter. If you don't believe me, check out this Hot Rod article I dug up before I posted:
http://www.hotrod.com/techfaq/hrdp_0...ide/index.html
07-30-2010, 01:22 PM
#58
My tuner modified my tune a little more and i reset the fuel trims. The difference is night and day. I feel like i gained 50hp. Idk why though. I also sent my tuner what nmp said so maybe he will change my tune a little bit. My tuner though is very good though and i feel like he did what he did on purpose. We will see though.
