gulfstreamcpt

Hey y'all,
So I've been having WAY too much fun the last few months getting all these fun ideas and gathering parts to make the 'ole Monte just a "little faster" (Damn all you people on here putting all these crazy thoughts in my head!!!!!!)

Anywho, now with the DT headers to finish off the exhaust (with my Magnaflow cat-back), HP tuners tune, milled TB from ZZPerformance, and a number of other goodies I've collected, I'm looking at the LS6 intake and camshaft mods... I have found a cam thru Linginfelter that I have talked with them about and they say it would be a great choice to go with. Since I have heard a number of you sound rather knowlegable here on the forum, thougt would put the specs on this stick by y'all and see if I can get some feedback on what some of you think. Here are the cam's specs:

Linginfelter GT2-3 cam and spring kit
Duration at .050: 207/220
Valve lift: 571"/578"
Rocker arm: 1.7 ratio
Centerline: 118.5

Well, what do some of you think. With the mods I have and will do as listed above, too much cam, not enough, better choices?????

Thanx for any input y'all.........

TiredGXP

iTrader: (2)

Interesting choice. There have been a few threads about this cam in the GEN III section of the forum.

Large LSA on this cam - supposed to have a very civilized idle. Also supposed to be very compatible with a turbo.

JDMC5

iTrader: (3)

that cam is actually perfect for the LS4. It will have a smooth idle, you won't loose any bottom end and you'll gain tons of topend.

blakss

iTrader: (4)

would it work with the DOD and 1.8 RR's? Also would we still use the 7.4 Push rods..??

JDMC5

iTrader: (3)

no it won't work for DOD, you would use the standard 7.4 pushrod length if you swapped out the lifters, no 1.8's are probably not a good idea.

Nacho SS

iTrader: (4)

I acutally want a lower LSA than stock....but that's just me.

Vectus

iTrader: (1)

why would the 1.8s not be a good idea? Not questioning you, just want to know.

91LT16SpeedFormula

iTrader: (60)

IIRC its b/c of the ramp rate on the cam

nmp0098

The New Era DOD cams are ground on a 113 LSA (114 stock) with extra duration (good luck finding out how much, unfortunately). Though I know not everyone wants to keep DOD, if you do a lot of highway driving (like me) you shouldn't lose much fuel economy swapping to that cam. It's idling with a lot of overlap that kills fuel mileage. I buzz down the highway at about 2500RPM usually. I'm thinking that's the best of both worlds: some lope, some power, and roughly the same mileage. It's not that mileage is my top concern, but I do log a lot of miles. Plus, I think keeping DOD is trick. Here's the DOD cam in a 6.0L:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxyjnGioJ3k
If I did a lot of city driving instead, I'd probably delete DOD and go with a wide LSA cam like the GT2-3.

Nacho SS

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I don't drive very much on the highway...I tried that this year and it really wears out your car fast at least for me (LA to SF). That's an 800 mile round trip and I've been looking to get a DD that is better on gas but I am moving home this summer so I will keep the MC and hopefully put a bigger cam in it. Half of me wants to get rid of it so I stop modding a FWD car.

06 SS

agreed. Wider LSA's can mask a cam that is spec'd too large. If you have to go wide, your cam is too big. Tighten it up to about 111-112 on the 325 and enjoy a stronger mid-upper range with higher torque than the stocker. Be a little peakier, but for a daily driver, that is what I would go with.

JDMC5

iTrader: (3)

1.8's aren't a good idea because the lift is already about .600.

LSA, is all personal preference. Some people like the sleeper cams some like the radical cams, there's no right or wrong. Going wide doesn't mean the cam is too big it means you want a smooth idle.

Nacho SS

iTrader: (4)

Exactly. The whole reason of putting a cam in for me is to intensify the power band and change the sounds of the engine.
No, LSA is not all personal preference. It has a profound impact on valve timing and valve events and their relation to the powerband.

JDMC5

iTrader: (3)

I understand that.......let me be more specific, some people like a loopy idle so they go with a tight lsa, others like the sleeper effect so they go with a wide lsa.........it's a preference. Yes, I realize the power band is affected by it.

06 SS

While a change in LSA will change overlap volume much more than a simple duration change, a tighter LSA is going to give you more average power under the curve (obviously meaning higher average torque) as well as higher peak torque. Without the loss down low that longer duration cams give. You give up peak horsepower, but unless you have a track only car and run it all the way to redline all the time, your car will be faster on the street with a shorter duration, tighter LSA cam (as well as more enjoyable/useable/faster in normal driving). If you are getting reversion and need more LSA to make it drivable, you have too much duration. Add about 10 degrees duration to a stock cam, subtract 2 degrees of LSA and I doubt anyone but you would hear any lope at all. What you would have is a stronger engine from just above idle to redline with larger gains from the mid-range on up. Just perfect, in my opinion for a street car. Will it make big numbers on a machine? Nope, but it will leave guys with bigger cams using gears/stalls to compensate and still having to chase you down after the first 1/8th mile (i.e. 0-70 MPH). A stall and gears will kill your mileage a lot faster than some higher overlap idling.

707chance

iTrader: (2)

I talked to Roger at http://www.vincihiperformance.com/ and they recommended their VHP 056 “BOSS” camshaft.

I also asked them about rocker setup and they recommended: "We are seeing about 25hp and 20ft lbs torque on most installs with the 1.8 setup. The kit includes everything necessary for a drop-in install. Aircraft aluminum rockers with extremely quiet tapered needle bearings, ARP screw-in studs, for adjustability, pushrod guide plates for stability, poly locks, and special length, moly pushrods. Price $ 699.99 . The VHP/HD spring setup works well with the rockers and will handle up to .660 lift. The kit includes dual hi tensile chrome silicone steel springs, titanium retainers, hardened locator seats, viton seals and hardened locks. Price $ 319.99. This combo will work equally as well with the stock cam or any of our street performance cams."

any thoughts?

nmp0098

@707chance - That cam is right in the range you want for streetability IMO. Just make sure that you include lifters in your budget. The $700 Crane Quick Lift rocker kit is a nice pickup. Before I got suckered into the headers I was going to pair them with the LS6 intake and 100HP wet shot, but now I'm going with a cam change too. Max Chevy dyno'd 18HP at the wheels without a retune using those rockers. 06SS has them installed, so he might have more to add. The spring setup they mention is a dual spring, so the titanium retainers reduce the effective valve weight to something closer to the stock beehive design. Both duals and beehives work. Personally I'm a beehive fan, but the only thing that will draw more opinions than valve springs is cam shaft selection. I wade into this conversation with trepidition.

The chart that NachoSS posted is the cleanest way to lay out the effects of LSA.

@06SS - I generally agree with you, but I disagree with your claim that, given a constant lobe profile, a tighter LSA will give you more low RPM torque. You'll definately get more torque near the torque peak and less torque near the RPM extremes. That means that off-idle torque is lower and, depending on where you shift, you can lose a little torque on the very top end too. Also, you can't determine which style (tight LSA vs. wide LSA) has more area under the torque curve without specifying the RPM range. In fact, there will always be an RPM range in which the area under the two curves is the same; you can do some calculus to solve for the range. Generally, from off-idle to redline, a wide LSA cam will have more area under the curve. However, during spririted driving or a WOT run you will typically see more area under the curve with a tight LSA, because you are running from say 3000-6500RPM. I say typically because you can go too wide or too narrow. If everything else is held constant (lobe profile, shift points, stall, gear ratios, final drive, tires, etc.) there is one LSA that will be quickest in the 1/4. Our engines are pretty well understood and you can use any number of rules of thumb, but unless you have a NASCAR budget, you won't find the ideal cam specs.

All of that brings me back to the point that I think it is personal preference. IMO, a tighter LSA will make more power and be quicker in the 1/4 than a wide LSA cam in our application (it's just my opinion because I haven't run down the track multiple times with two different cams and compared the averages... in fact I never will). With a tight LSA, you'll never see the lower torque off idle with our loose converter, our bottom end won't hold up to the RPM's you'd need to see the lower torque up top, and you will love the bump in torque in the upper mid range. The trade off is a measurable increase in stopping stopping distance (lower vacuum = lower braking performance) and decrease in fuel economy and idle quality, but most hot rodders don't mind the trade off and you probably won't be able to notice the braking loss by the seat of your pants (emissions also get a lot worse, but I doubt many people here care too much about that). With a wide LSA you can probably run nearly the same time, but be more stealth because of the stock sounding idle. Plus, there is less vibration from the engine and that might sit better with your passengers. Finally, a lot of times people go with a wide LSA cam so that they can keep a stock stall torque converter and still get good drivability on the low end (because of the better off idle torque). You can argue that supercharging of some sort (roots, cetrifugal, turbo, chemical (N20)) is better way to reach that same goal of ultimate streetability and power than widening your LSA, but opinions vary.

At the end of the day, it's always about your overall combo and what you want from your car.

nmp0098

You may want to sit down and see how much gas you can buy with the money you'll spend on buying and insuring a second car, and how long before you'll break even.

And I'm guessing the other half of you just wants to hot rod anything you drive, including your lawn tractor if you have one.

JDMC5

iTrader: (3)

thanks for posting what I already knew but didn't feel like typing out. When are you tossing those headers on Nate?

DavidGXP

iTrader: (14)

http://www.maxchevy.com/tech/2007/ii_7-rocker-1.html

And, I like the torker cam. I'm not a big fan of big cams anymore. It's better to have too little then too much. This cam is pretty much a 2000 LS1 cam (the good one!) but with a little tigher lobe seperation. With 1.8 Gold race rockers I'm thinking that it will be just right.