New Trick Flow 21 Degree LT1 Heads
11-14-2008, 07:03 PM
#21
Sure, why not? Let's also add that changing the combustion chamber profile also affects flow #'s, but I'm sure that in Ellis's world, that's not a big deal either.
As much as I hate to begrudge you boys the chance to "one-up" me, do you think it might be possible for us to have an eensy-weensy bit of Tinkerbell hope for a second and entertain the idea that the folks at Trick Flow might know what the hell they're doing, and reserve judgement until we have all of the facts?
11-15-2008, 01:31 AM
#22
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Someone correct me cause reading this has confused me a bit. Isn't the main reason for manipulating the valve angle to change the angle of the airflow in relation to the valve opening? In other words change the port shape to have a straighter flow of air.
If you "roll the heads" you are not changine the airflow/valve angle relationship before the valve, only after the valve because of the combustion chamber changes.
If you design/fabricate new castings with the valve angle you want, you can also redesign the port and combustion chamber to optimize both.
I would assume that Trick Flow would be introducing new castings. And they are likely to be setup so that your normal intake and headers will bolt up.
If you "roll the heads" you are not changine the airflow/valve angle relationship before the valve, only after the valve because of the combustion chamber changes.
If you design/fabricate new castings with the valve angle you want, you can also redesign the port and combustion chamber to optimize both.
I would assume that Trick Flow would be introducing new castings. And they are likely to be setup so that your normal intake and headers will bolt up.
11-15-2008, 08:27 AM
#23
That would be my assumption too. I really don't understand why so many people on here have to slam every new product that is made for the LT1. I am not going to slam either of the porters mentioned, but I can't understand that hang-up either. If I was going to build a maximum performance LT1 the first thing to go would be the stock head castings.
11-15-2008, 10:06 AM
#25
I was aware that some shops roll the heads to improve valve angle. Many times, they only roll them 1/2 deg because class rules say "stock valve angle +/- .5 deg. However, it does reduce chamber size and there is a limit before the valve seat meets the deck surface. Hopefully, TFS will have new 21 deg castings with large-ish chambers and valve seats away from the deck.
11-17-2008, 08:50 AM
#26
For many years now we have been asked when are you guys going to come out with a smaller chamber LT1 head so we can keep our compression? We did and we moved the valve angle to get more CFM out of the head. By moving the valve angle and changing up the chamber we picked up 20cfm on the intake side and 19 on the exhaust side with a smaller runner volume. We also put the same spring package that we offer on our LS heads. 1.300" dual spring with 150lbs @ 1.800" installed and 450lbs @ 1.200" open.
Here are the flow #'s on this head.
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 65 54
.200 138 117
.300 202 162
.400 243 189
.500 270 197
.600 273 209
AI is one of our dealers and they do a great job in porting our current castings. I am sure they will make great numbers with the new castings aslo!
Here are the flow #'s on this head.
Lift Intake Exhaust
.100 65 54
.200 138 117
.300 202 162
.400 243 189
.500 270 197
.600 273 209
AI is one of our dealers and they do a great job in porting our current castings. I am sure they will make great numbers with the new castings aslo!
__________________
http://www.trickflow.com/emain.asp
Click Above for Product Information
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11-17-2008, 12:17 PM
#28
Dealers should be able to get stock by late Jan., early Feb.
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http://www.trickflow.com/emain.asp
Click Above for Product Information
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11-17-2008, 01:20 PM
#30
These heads seem like they will work really good on stock bottom end setups. The standard Trickflow heads lowered the CR and flowed 250. These heads will let you keep or go slightly higher than stock CR and flow 270cfm. Stock heads only flow 212-215cfm.
IF I was in the heads market I would pick these up.
IF I was in the heads market I would pick these up.
11-17-2008, 05:21 PM
#32
Very cool, looking forward to seeing how these perform 
n (ported and as-cast)
I don't know a whole lot about valve geometry, but it's something I hear over and over
again as being a key "wish list" item for aftermarket casting.
n (ported and as-cast)I don't know a whole lot about valve geometry, but it's something I hear over and over
again as being a key "wish list" item for aftermarket casting.
11-17-2008, 05:26 PM
#33
Take a look at the sport bikes. Every year they revise the engine, they reduce the valve angle and increase the height of the port...and the power goes up.
11-17-2008, 05:39 PM
#34
I mean, if it were as simple as reducing over and over, you'd think someone would skip ahead of the game LOL
Kinda like 6-minute abs ...
11-17-2008, 06:35 PM
#36
Seriously though, there are other challenges with reducing valve angle and increasing port height. For instance, on the sport bikes, they had to point the runners and TB so high up that the injectors are actually underneath the runner. Furthermore, the airbox has basically traded places with the gas tank. The cams get closer together and the spark plug still has to fit between them. There are always compromises... I did a quick google search and found the following included valve angles for Honda's liter bike (included is intake + exhaust angle)
'93 900: 32 deg
'00 929: 25 deg
'04 1000: 24 deg
'08 1000: 22 deg
Check this out: http://www.calculatedrisk.ca/pics/tr.../image0010.JPG
The latest offerings have 11 degree valve angles!
Similarly...
'55 SBC: 23 deg
'97 LS1: 15 deg
'06 LS7: 12 deg
Mike
11-17-2008, 11:12 PM
#37
Well...there is the marketing aspect of it. If they released the highest tech available then there would be no reason for you to buy next year's model.
Seriously though, there are other challenges with reducing valve angle and increasing port height. For instance, on the sport bikes, they had to point the runners and TB so high up that the injectors are actually underneath the runner. Furthermore, the airbox has basically traded places with the gas tank. The cams get closer together and the spark plug still has to fit between them. There are always compromises... I did a quick google search and found the following included valve angles for Honda's liter bike (included is intake + exhaust angle)
'93 900: 32 deg
'00 929: 25 deg
'04 1000: 24 deg
'08 1000: 22 deg
Check this out: http://www.calculatedrisk.ca/pics/tr.../image0010.JPG
The latest offerings have 11 degree valve angles!
Similarly...
'55 SBC: 23 deg
'97 LS1: 15 deg
'06 LS7: 12 deg
Mike
Seriously though, there are other challenges with reducing valve angle and increasing port height. For instance, on the sport bikes, they had to point the runners and TB so high up that the injectors are actually underneath the runner. Furthermore, the airbox has basically traded places with the gas tank. The cams get closer together and the spark plug still has to fit between them. There are always compromises... I did a quick google search and found the following included valve angles for Honda's liter bike (included is intake + exhaust angle)
'93 900: 32 deg
'00 929: 25 deg
'04 1000: 24 deg
'08 1000: 22 deg
Check this out: http://www.calculatedrisk.ca/pics/tr.../image0010.JPG
The latest offerings have 11 degree valve angles!
Similarly...
'55 SBC: 23 deg
'97 LS1: 15 deg
'06 LS7: 12 deg
Mike
. When you stop to think about it, it really is amazing what is being done.There is a lot of science behind squeezing performance out of a cylinder head - that is why it is so important to take them to a pro to get worked on and not just toy around with a set in your back yard.
About the topic, I am very, very anxious to see what lloyd and AI can do with a set of those trickflows. 270+ out of the box while keeping the chamber size down is an impressive start.
11-19-2008, 03:08 PM
#38
I'm very interested in this 21 degree design. The stock numbers look very good, can't wait to see what AI & LE can do with the new design. I also would like to see some speculated pricing on the new heads.
11-19-2008, 04:45 PM
#39
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Glad? I'm shocked there are new products for the "stepchildren!"
Like others, I look forward to seeing what the TFS heads can do in the right hands, but I'm also curious to see how they perform right out of the box. I'd like to see them in a direct comparison to some quality-ported stock castings.
Like others, I look forward to seeing what the TFS heads can do in the right hands, but I'm also curious to see how they perform right out of the box. I'd like to see them in a direct comparison to some quality-ported stock castings.
