LT1 worth it??
01-21-2009, 05:35 AM
#61
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I added a good CAI, cat-back, headers, GM LT4 cam\ rocker kit and 100 hp nitrous. To back the nitrous up I installed a Mallory hyfire ignition and all the nitrous safeguards like wide-band monitoring, in-line fuel pump etc.... Base expenditure was about $2500 and I suspect I'll have 300-325 NA hp or 400-425 with the N2O. My LT1 compares to my H/C LS1 turned LS6 from a horsepower and torque perspective.
If your LT1 is in good condition, you plan to keep it another 4 or 5 years and you are happy with the rest of the car then my vote is to mod your LT1. If the engine is high mileage (110k or more) and there are other issues not related to the engine then you might want to save the mod money and wait for a deal on an LS1 f-body. I have both so I keep putting money into my LT1 just for the entertainment. I don't expect to get anything back on the LT1 investment. These are the things I would consider.
If your LT1 is in good condition, you plan to keep it another 4 or 5 years and you are happy with the rest of the car then my vote is to mod your LT1. If the engine is high mileage (110k or more) and there are other issues not related to the engine then you might want to save the mod money and wait for a deal on an LS1 f-body. I have both so I keep putting money into my LT1 just for the entertainment. I don't expect to get anything back on the LT1 investment. These are the things I would consider.
01-21-2009, 06:10 AM
#62
LMAO! All you need in an LS1 to run a low 11 is a cam ie: cam only car. Pop in a t-rex, MS4 or equivalent.
You are comparing an LT1 heads/cam package that runs anywhere from $1995-$2495 (TFS) to an LS1 camshaft which is $399
Again, you don't need to do ANY headwork on an LS1 car to run a low 11. Hell, there's plenty of bolt-on LS1's running low-mid 11's. A local guy I know on here (studderin) drove his cam-only car 1000 miles to the LSxShootout, swapped tires and clicked off a bunch of 11.20's yanking the wheels. I guarantee he doesn't have anything more than a street sweeper cam, headers, intake and a tune.
Yes, some of the parts are more especially heads, but the stock LS1 heads flow better than a set Trickflow heads, LT4 heads, Edelbrock heads, etc...The only aftermarket LT1 heads that beat a box stock LS1 head are AFR's, Darts, and ported stuff from AI and LE and a few other shops.
Noone on here ever said it was a piece of ****, except for the OP's Mustang friend.
You guys must be buying your LT1 parts from that high priced performance shop by your house and not looking at what has been produced in the last 2 years. AI is making packages that are in the 10s on high mileage stock bottom ends. An LS1 will not get you there cheaper.
We are talking 2-3mph stock for stock in the 1/4 mile. Sure an LS1 responds better to bolt ons... it has an advantage in almost every area. Better flowing intake, better designed throttle body, WAY better flowing heads with terrific port design, exhaust manifolds that don't look like a cast iron stove... etc. The point you are trying to make is the LT1 is a piece of **** and bolt on for bolt on will just get ROLLED in a race. Not the case at all. There are far too many variables and I know you seem very unrealistic in your approach but I'm sorry... the LT1 is no dog. The jump from LT1 to LS1 is not even close to the improvement from L98 to LT1. That you can be certain of.
01-21-2009, 08:39 AM
#63
LMAO! All you need in an LS1 to run a low 11 is a cam ie: cam only car. Pop in a t-rex, MS4 or equivalent.
You are comparing an LT1 heads/cam package that runs anywhere from $1995-$2495 (TFS) to an LS1 camshaft which is $399
Again, you don't need to do ANY headwork on an LS1 car to run a low 11. Hell, there's plenty of bolt-on LS1's running low-mid 11's. A local guy I know on here (studderin) drove his cam-only car 1000 miles to the LSxShootout, swapped tires and clicked off a bunch of 11.20's yanking the wheels. I guarantee he doesn't have anything more than a street sweeper cam, headers, intake and a tune.
Yes, some of the parts are more especially heads, but the stock LS1 heads flow better than a set Trickflow heads, LT4 heads, Edelbrock heads, etc...The only aftermarket LT1 heads that beat a box stock LS1 head are AFR's, Darts, and ported stuff from AI and LE and a few other shops.
Noone on here ever said it was a piece of ****, except for the OP's Mustang friend.
You are comparing an LT1 heads/cam package that runs anywhere from $1995-$2495 (TFS) to an LS1 camshaft which is $399
Again, you don't need to do ANY headwork on an LS1 car to run a low 11. Hell, there's plenty of bolt-on LS1's running low-mid 11's. A local guy I know on here (studderin) drove his cam-only car 1000 miles to the LSxShootout, swapped tires and clicked off a bunch of 11.20's yanking the wheels. I guarantee he doesn't have anything more than a street sweeper cam, headers, intake and a tune.
Yes, some of the parts are more especially heads, but the stock LS1 heads flow better than a set Trickflow heads, LT4 heads, Edelbrock heads, etc...The only aftermarket LT1 heads that beat a box stock LS1 head are AFR's, Darts, and ported stuff from AI and LE and a few other shops.
Noone on here ever said it was a piece of ****, except for the OP's Mustang friend.
LT1 package to make 400rwhp is $1200(LE1)-$1650(LE2).
I know some bolt on lt1s in the 11s.
The other two points... I don't care. lol
01-21-2009, 04:02 PM
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01-21-2009, 04:56 PM
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in regards to the gears this isn't always true, I have a 94 Z28 with an auto and I did a gear swap with the 3:73 an when they where swapped my car had 3:42 stock. So not all of the mcome with the 2:73's. I do agree with the freeway thing, Hell with the 3:73 at 80mph I'm running 3000rpm. Big difference in high speed long distance traveling.
01-21-2009, 05:00 PM
#68
this isn't always true, I have a 94 Z28 with an auto and I did a gear swap with the 3:73 an when they where swapped my car had 3:42 stock. So not all of the mcome with the 2:73's. I do agree with the freeway thing, Hell with the 3:73 at 80mph I'm running 3000rpm. Big difference in high speed long distance traveling.
01-21-2009, 05:52 PM
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Well I'm hear to say that before I bought my car the guy drove it to car shows and when I swapped the gears personnally it had 3:42 gears. There where no mods done at all! Bone stock for show only!
01-21-2009, 08:04 PM
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gears Yeah that's what happened, they guy drove it to the car show and dropped the gears on the interstate, get out of here. I've had the car for 10 years. I'm sure the gears didn't go out on a 5 year car.
01-21-2009, 08:30 PM
#72
I love my LT1 car, I LOVE the looks at the track when I pop my hood.
There is only .3 difference at the track mod for mod at the same weight (in general) I have been around alot of 4th gen cars.
LT1 with drag radials, converter, CAI, airfoil, headers,ex,rocker arms, tune,ORY ran 12.60/12.70.
LS1 with drag radials, headers, lid, free mods, ex cutout, converter,tune,ORY ran 12.30/12.40
LS1 six speed, lid, free mods, headers, catback, ORY, 4.10 gear, pulley on regular 315/35 street tires and a HELL OF A DRIVER went 12.56.
LT1 six speed(mine) tune, rocker arms, Mac shorties, SLP2OTL,ORY, airfoil, CAI, 3.73 gear, drag radials 12.70
ALL the above cars were full weight, all buddies of mine so I know exactly what the cars were.
Both platforms get closer as you go faster, I see MANY guys with 408's that dont make the power I make OR run the number I do. Most "fast" LSx cars are GUTTED racecars. Most fast LT1 cars are not. For whatever reason.
No one has REALLY optimized a LT1 car, not REALLY. RIck Abare (9.50's NA), the Ai holy grail, Ed Wright(9.90 NA) come to mind along with Joe Overton(9.50's NA) WAYYY BACK. None of those cars were 3000 lbs or even close to it.
If I gutted my car, put a turbo 350 with a brake, 12 bolt with a spool, aerospace brakes, 2 kirkey seats I feel pretty sure I could get into the 9's on motor.
There is only .3 difference at the track mod for mod at the same weight (in general) I have been around alot of 4th gen cars.
LT1 with drag radials, converter, CAI, airfoil, headers,ex,rocker arms, tune,ORY ran 12.60/12.70.
LS1 with drag radials, headers, lid, free mods, ex cutout, converter,tune,ORY ran 12.30/12.40
LS1 six speed, lid, free mods, headers, catback, ORY, 4.10 gear, pulley on regular 315/35 street tires and a HELL OF A DRIVER went 12.56.
LT1 six speed(mine) tune, rocker arms, Mac shorties, SLP2OTL,ORY, airfoil, CAI, 3.73 gear, drag radials 12.70
ALL the above cars were full weight, all buddies of mine so I know exactly what the cars were.
Both platforms get closer as you go faster, I see MANY guys with 408's that dont make the power I make OR run the number I do. Most "fast" LSx cars are GUTTED racecars. Most fast LT1 cars are not. For whatever reason.
No one has REALLY optimized a LT1 car, not REALLY. RIck Abare (9.50's NA), the Ai holy grail, Ed Wright(9.90 NA) come to mind along with Joe Overton(9.50's NA) WAYYY BACK. None of those cars were 3000 lbs or even close to it.
If I gutted my car, put a turbo 350 with a brake, 12 bolt with a spool, aerospace brakes, 2 kirkey seats I feel pretty sure I could get into the 9's on motor.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 01-21-2009 at 08:38 PM.
01-21-2009, 10:05 PM
#74
I love my LT1 car, I LOVE the looks at the track when I pop my hood.
There is only .3 difference at the track mod for mod at the same weight (in general) I have been around alot of 4th gen cars.
LT1 with drag radials, converter, CAI, airfoil, headers,ex,rocker arms, tune,ORY ran 12.60/12.70.
LS1 with drag radials, headers, lid, free mods, ex cutout, converter,tune,ORY ran 12.30/12.40
LS1 six speed, lid, free mods, headers, catback, ORY, 4.10 gear, pulley on regular 315/35 street tires and a HELL OF A DRIVER went 12.56.
LT1 six speed(mine) tune, rocker arms, Mac shorties, SLP2OTL,ORY, airfoil, CAI, 3.73 gear, drag radials 12.70
ALL the above cars were full weight, all buddies of mine so I know exactly what the cars were.
Both platforms get closer as you go faster, I see MANY guys with 408's that dont make the power I make OR run the number I do. Most "fast" LSx cars are GUTTED racecars. Most fast LT1 cars are not. For whatever reason.
No one has REALLY optimized a LT1 car, not REALLY. RIck Abare (9.50's NA), the Ai holy grail, Ed Wright(9.90 NA) come to mind along with Joe Overton(9.50's NA) WAYYY BACK. None of those cars were 3000 lbs or even close to it.
If I gutted my car, put a turbo 350 with a brake, 12 bolt with a spool, aerospace brakes, 2 kirkey seats I feel pretty sure I could get into the 9's on motor.
There is only .3 difference at the track mod for mod at the same weight (in general) I have been around alot of 4th gen cars.
LT1 with drag radials, converter, CAI, airfoil, headers,ex,rocker arms, tune,ORY ran 12.60/12.70.
LS1 with drag radials, headers, lid, free mods, ex cutout, converter,tune,ORY ran 12.30/12.40
LS1 six speed, lid, free mods, headers, catback, ORY, 4.10 gear, pulley on regular 315/35 street tires and a HELL OF A DRIVER went 12.56.
LT1 six speed(mine) tune, rocker arms, Mac shorties, SLP2OTL,ORY, airfoil, CAI, 3.73 gear, drag radials 12.70
ALL the above cars were full weight, all buddies of mine so I know exactly what the cars were.
Both platforms get closer as you go faster, I see MANY guys with 408's that dont make the power I make OR run the number I do. Most "fast" LSx cars are GUTTED racecars. Most fast LT1 cars are not. For whatever reason.
No one has REALLY optimized a LT1 car, not REALLY. RIck Abare (9.50's NA), the Ai holy grail, Ed Wright(9.90 NA) come to mind along with Joe Overton(9.50's NA) WAYYY BACK. None of those cars were 3000 lbs or even close to it.
If I gutted my car, put a turbo 350 with a brake, 12 bolt with a spool, aerospace brakes, 2 kirkey seats I feel pretty sure I could get into the 9's on motor.
01-23-2009, 07:22 AM
#76
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Or, the car may have originally had the manual transmission. In which case the RPO for the axle gear would show the 3:42.
02-08-2009, 01:34 AM
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stall I have a vig 3500 in my car and damn did it make a difference wouldn't go no lower than a 3000. you need to drive a car with a high stall you would love it my vigilante has real nice street manors almost feels stock under normal driving,
03-13-2009, 12:52 PM
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03-13-2009, 03:41 PM
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LT1's can be made very fast, and LS1's can too. but the LS1 IS a better platform. mainly because of the valve angle on the LS1 heads they are able to flow better. I THINK the LT1 head are like 23* and the LS1's are like 15* or something. but dont worry TFS just came out with a 21* for our cars
(dont quote me on the specs, but i THINK that is right)