A I or A F R
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what will the heads be going on? stock cube? in that case, ported stockers will do the job.. I am interested in building a ballz out hr 396. Im considering the afr 210 eliminators, but want to find a reputable porter to go over them. I know AI will work on trickflows, which are nice pieces themselvs, but i dont know if they play with afr's.
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I'm looking for "average hp" "area under the curve" whatever you want to call it.
I'm not being a jerk or trying to be incendiary, just asking...
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what will the heads be going on? stock cube? in that case, ported stockers will do the job.. I am interested in building a ballz out hr 396. Im considering the afr 210 eliminators, but want to find a reputable porter to go over them. I know AI will work on trickflows, which are nice pieces themselvs, but i dont know if they play with afr's.
I mean all around they will out do a set of AFR 195's. AFR claims all these high flow numbers and stuff but you throw a set of those on a realistic flow bench and ported stock heads will make more hp all the way around.
It all depends on your combo and how much you want to spend - and going by your combo I would say ported stockers would be plenty.
If you have AFRs gone over by hand they cannot be touched by pretty much any 23* head. Then you are looking at twice the cost though.
If you have AFRs gone over by hand they cannot be touched by pretty much any 23* head. Then you are looking at twice the cost though.
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
I believe the answer he was wanting was some reference to proof not just this is true because I said it.
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My last combo was with the same exact bottom end. AFR 190cc CNC'd heads. They were suppose to flow 265int. Anyway. Car ran low 12's consistantly. There was a guy at the track about 2 years ago running AFR 195cc Eliminator series heads and was running 12.30's @112 with a CC306 cam and a 355. Keep in mind with Ai you get a custom cam to match your setup. My times and hp are in my sig. I made over 400rwtq before 3200 rpm. and carried it all the way through peaking at 423 at about 5100. I don't have a side by side comparison.
I have untouched afr 210`s and they arent even the eliminators and I think they do quite well for what they are
one day I will get them ported and put a n2o hit and see how they do
If I did it over I would have got the afr 227`s
one day I will get them ported and put a n2o hit and see how they do
If I did it over I would have got the afr 227`s
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i have afr's and there rockin.. couldnt ask for more..if your looking for a full modded motor id go with the afr's.I bent a valve on my ported stock heads and had to do a rebuild. my afr's are wayyy better then my stock ported ones were
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
I have the old AFRs 190s on my 9.8 to 1 compression 383 with a GM 847 cam . It traps low 120s regularly, I think the work it trapped on a complete run was 118 mph.
I had the same heads on a 355 with the cc305 cam and it trapped 113 to 114 mph.
This is in Oklahoma at 1500 feet elevation, weather is different every other minute here, the temp can range from 50 to 100 degrees in a few days during spring and fall. Its worthless to try to get a good time during the Summer Hot and humid, its just for fun.
Before I had the AFR 190s onthe 355 I had a set of ported stockers , ported by a local machine shop, they flowed in the 250/190 cfm range. with 2.00/1.56 valves. He said the runner size was about 185ish.
My best mphs with that set-up was 110-111.
I'm sure AI and LE are good products and should get you going. One thing an aftermarket head brings to the table of course is thicker decks, better designed exhaust ports (just look at even crappy AFR exh flow numbers), and in most cases fixes to ailments of factory stuff. (dual bolt patterns throughout and large spring seats).
Money is obviously the limiting factor since a set of complete aftermarket heads are from 1500 to 2500 and porting (which when ported there is no comparrison) can bring them close and to 3000$.
I had the same heads on a 355 with the cc305 cam and it trapped 113 to 114 mph.
This is in Oklahoma at 1500 feet elevation, weather is different every other minute here, the temp can range from 50 to 100 degrees in a few days during spring and fall. Its worthless to try to get a good time during the Summer Hot and humid, its just for fun.
Before I had the AFR 190s onthe 355 I had a set of ported stockers , ported by a local machine shop, they flowed in the 250/190 cfm range. with 2.00/1.56 valves. He said the runner size was about 185ish.
My best mphs with that set-up was 110-111.
I'm sure AI and LE are good products and should get you going. One thing an aftermarket head brings to the table of course is thicker decks, better designed exhaust ports (just look at even crappy AFR exh flow numbers), and in most cases fixes to ailments of factory stuff. (dual bolt patterns throughout and large spring seats).
Money is obviously the limiting factor since a set of complete aftermarket heads are from 1500 to 2500 and porting (which when ported there is no comparrison) can bring them close and to 3000$.
It isn't quite a fair comparisson when looking at AFR flow numbers next to ported stock heads. AFR flows thier heads on a 4.125 bore and with a pipe on the exhaust. Ai flows on a 4.030 and uses no pipe.
4-7% lower on the small bore and a good deal lower by not flowing with an exhaust pipe.
4-7% lower on the small bore and a good deal lower by not flowing with an exhaust pipe.
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Kingfisher Oklahoma
It isn't quite a fair comparisson when looking at AFR flow numbers next to ported stock heads. AFR flows thier heads on a 4.125 bore and with a pipe on the exhaust. Ai flows on a 4.030 and uses no pipe.
4-7% lower on the small bore and a good deal lower by not flowing with an exhaust pipe.
4-7% lower on the small bore and a good deal lower by not flowing with an exhaust pipe.
But unless you flow heads side by side on the same bench arent flow bench numbers just relative?
Yes they are ported stock castings done by al @ LPE. I do not have flow numbers because he ported them on the side for 600.00. I think I paid 950 total for the ported heads, manley severe duty 2.0 1.60 valves, and ported/port matched intake. The only thing I have to compare is my car runs dead close to a supra around here and it's trapping low 120's! Sorry not tryin to bench race, but thats all I have for comparison lol!
My personal oppinion on bench numbers is that they are all but irrelevant in the real world where my car runs down the track.