Is this really high or expected?
Cool, because I don't see the logic in comparing a fourth gen LT4 SS to a first gen 69 SS 
.
First gens were still very popular when new(even if they weren't worth much). Fourth gens were NOT popular when new, so no matter how rare optioned it is how will they be popular when old??? IMO even 20 years from now it wont be worth much.
IROC Z28 convertable third gens were cool cars in the 80's and kind of rare...but they still aren't worth crap now 20+ years later!!!
There are actual IN DEMAND rare cars from the 70's that don't go for more then 20K. How will a fourth gen that wasn't even popular on release, and is not even a rare car, ever be worth 75K+, even in another 10-20 years??? The market is saturated with cheap fourth gens. That is why mustangs are a dime a dozen - think a 94 mustang GT will ever be worth anything, even if its the first one made of the year? It is the first of a new body style, but they made so many of them that they can be found for dirt cheap.
.First gens were still very popular when new(even if they weren't worth much). Fourth gens were NOT popular when new, so no matter how rare optioned it is how will they be popular when old??? IMO even 20 years from now it wont be worth much.
IROC Z28 convertable third gens were cool cars in the 80's and kind of rare...but they still aren't worth crap now 20+ years later!!!
There are actual IN DEMAND rare cars from the 70's that don't go for more then 20K. How will a fourth gen that wasn't even popular on release, and is not even a rare car, ever be worth 75K+, even in another 10-20 years??? The market is saturated with cheap fourth gens. That is why mustangs are a dime a dozen - think a 94 mustang GT will ever be worth anything, even if its the first one made of the year? It is the first of a new body style, but they made so many of them that they can be found for dirt cheap.
so 69 camaros shouldn't be worth anything since they were on the same chassis as the 67? is that what i'm understanding here?
and no the cars aren't worth anything right now...but someday they will be. there was a time when even the 67-69 camaros weren't worth much and people sold them all day long..but then they came into the era of when they were classics and look what happened
and no the cars aren't worth anything right now...but someday they will be. there was a time when even the 67-69 camaros weren't worth much and people sold them all day long..but then they came into the era of when they were classics and look what happened
There were 28,103 first generation Z28's made. There were 208,271 fourth gen Z28s made. Thats 7.41 times more fourth gen z28's made then first gens for you statistics majors. Even if you seperate the LT1 and LS1 z28s into two generations, there were still more then 125,000+ more LT1 z28s made then first gens.
Couple that with 40 years of dwindling numbers and maybe that is why they are worth more? Modern cars will stand the test of time much better, and I don't see ANY fourth gen dropping into "rare" and valuable status for quite some time.
Also, don't forget that rarity does not always mean value(like in this case IMO). There are second gen rare optioned cars can be much harder to find then a plain jane 69 camaro that still cannot pull the same price premium.
Couple that with 40 years of dwindling numbers and maybe that is why they are worth more? Modern cars will stand the test of time much better, and I don't see ANY fourth gen dropping into "rare" and valuable status for quite some time.
Also, don't forget that rarity does not always mean value(like in this case IMO). There are second gen rare optioned cars can be much harder to find then a plain jane 69 camaro that still cannot pull the same price premium.
so 69 camaros shouldn't be worth anything since they were on the same chassis as the 67? is that what i'm understanding here?
and no the cars aren't worth anything right now...but someday they will be. there was a time when even the 67-69 camaros weren't worth much and people sold them all day long..but then they came into the era of when they were classics and look what happened
and no the cars aren't worth anything right now...but someday they will be. there was a time when even the 67-69 camaros weren't worth much and people sold them all day long..but then they came into the era of when they were classics and look what happened
There were 28,103 first generation Z28's made. There were 208,271 fourth gen Z28s made. Thats 7.41 times more fourth gen z28's made then first gens for you statistics majors. Even if you seperate the LT1 and LS1 z28s into two generations, there were still more then 125,000+ more LT1 z28s made then first gens.
I understand what you are saying about the rarity factor, and you are correct, but pick and argument and stick with it.
You can`t restore plastic after it ages. It rots. That`s why collector cars died in the 70`s. Plastic was introduced in great quantities into the make of an automobile. My 67 camaro has plastic kick panels.
You posted several times in this thread how 4th gens would never be collectable because "the 1st gens were so much more popular." If they were more popular why are there ten times as many 4th gens?
I understand what you are saying about the rarity factor, and you are correct, but pick and argument and stick with it.
I understand what you are saying about the rarity factor, and you are correct, but pick and argument and stick with it.
Why are there more online forums now then there were in the 90s? Not because they weren't popular then, but because there are more users to cater to
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The difference is that most collector cars, rare or not, were popular in their time. Fourth gens were not...if they were, they would not have stopped making them.
Is my 93 worth anything since it is the first year and strangely optioned? Nope, I couldnt even get back what I have in the topend if I sold the whole thing!
Is my 93 worth anything since it is the first year and strangely optioned? Nope, I couldnt even get back what I have in the topend if I sold the whole thing!
65 Cobra was not a popular car? I think you need to do some research. That car had as much press in it`s debut then just about any high profile car ever. First car to do 0-100-0 in 13 seconds. There are a lot of good points in this thread, but it`s really worthless just like late model camaros
Money < Time This is the one time I actually <almost> agree with 96capricemgr, but not because of his "asshats" comments or his "logic" (please note the quotations), rather bacause of the reduced value of our money over time.
Qualification:
In the case of this particular vehicle (the first 97 LT4 SS), while I personally do not see this car for me being worth $75k, I also can see someone (as my step-father would say) "with more money than brains" paying that w/o a second thought...
But, getting back to my original point, given inflation, our money over time is worth less (not worthless, but rather just worth less) than it is now / today.
Without getting too complex, because of inflation, goods cost more tomorrow than today. If, in the future (20 to 30 years was advanced in a previous post), a car is worth more than what was paid for it, given the time value of $$$, then it is a 'sound' or 'good' investment. Ask any loan officer to explain this time value of money on paper using a house as an example - it's quite shocking.
Having said that, the likelyhood that most cars will attain that value is slim, however, this particular LT4 car might; it just might. In 99.99% of cases, though, most cars are 'poor' investments; meaning (no matter how rare or special) their value does not keep up with inflation.
Qualification:
In the case of this particular vehicle (the first 97 LT4 SS), while I personally do not see this car for me being worth $75k, I also can see someone (as my step-father would say) "with more money than brains" paying that w/o a second thought...
But, getting back to my original point, given inflation, our money over time is worth less (not worthless, but rather just worth less) than it is now / today.
Without getting too complex, because of inflation, goods cost more tomorrow than today. If, in the future (20 to 30 years was advanced in a previous post), a car is worth more than what was paid for it, given the time value of $$$, then it is a 'sound' or 'good' investment. Ask any loan officer to explain this time value of money on paper using a house as an example - it's quite shocking.
Having said that, the likelyhood that most cars will attain that value is slim, however, this particular LT4 car might; it just might. In 99.99% of cases, though, most cars are 'poor' investments; meaning (no matter how rare or special) their value does not keep up with inflation.
The old stuff is worth money because people did NOT buy them to store them and expect to make money. They drove them and they were crap that was scrapyard material by 100K. That is why those cars are worth money today.
Newer stuff lasts longer and you have asshats like this who thinks cars are investments and I am happy to say they are their own undoing. So many guys trying this crap they stop the value from ever going up much.
If you stop and look at things as an investment cars always lose. If you store a car for 10 years anf get $10K over new you lost your *** compared to actually investing that money. Start figuring storage, insurance, battery, oil tires etc, hell inflation has to be figured too.
Several times a year we see 90s Impala SSs come up for sale with 3000 or less miles. Seems everyone and their brother bought one as an "investment" here they are over a decade later and they can't get the original sale price and could not even before the economy tanked. Since people expected them to gain value too many were stored and that stopped the value from climbing. Funny as hell, those are the guys trying to make the hobby too expensive for the true enthusuiast.
Newer stuff lasts longer and you have asshats like this who thinks cars are investments and I am happy to say they are their own undoing. So many guys trying this crap they stop the value from ever going up much.
If you stop and look at things as an investment cars always lose. If you store a car for 10 years anf get $10K over new you lost your *** compared to actually investing that money. Start figuring storage, insurance, battery, oil tires etc, hell inflation has to be figured too.
Several times a year we see 90s Impala SSs come up for sale with 3000 or less miles. Seems everyone and their brother bought one as an "investment" here they are over a decade later and they can't get the original sale price and could not even before the economy tanked. Since people expected them to gain value too many were stored and that stopped the value from climbing. Funny as hell, those are the guys trying to make the hobby too expensive for the true enthusuiast.
Business 101 - Supply vs. Demand This is a simple case of Supply vs. Demand, nothing more or less.
This is why they're making NEW 57 Chevy bodies, their demand has exceeded the supply...
This is why they're making NEW 57 Chevy bodies, their demand has exceeded the supply...
First gens were still very popular when new(even if they weren't worth much). Fourth gens were NOT popular when new, so no matter how rare optioned it is how will they be popular when old??? IMO even 20 years from now it wont be worth much.
IROC Z28 convertable third gens were cool cars in the 80's and kind of rare...but they still aren't worth crap now 20+ years later!!!
There are actual IN DEMAND rare cars from the 70's that don't go for more then 20K. How will a fourth gen that wasn't even popular on release, and is not even a rare car, ever be worth 75K+, even in another 10-20 years??? The market is saturated with cheap fourth gens. That is why mustangs are a dime a dozen - think a 94 mustang GT will ever be worth anything, even if its the first one made of the year? It is the first of a new body style, but they made so many of them that they can be found for dirt cheap.
IROC Z28 convertable third gens were cool cars in the 80's and kind of rare...but they still aren't worth crap now 20+ years later!!!
There are actual IN DEMAND rare cars from the 70's that don't go for more then 20K. How will a fourth gen that wasn't even popular on release, and is not even a rare car, ever be worth 75K+, even in another 10-20 years??? The market is saturated with cheap fourth gens. That is why mustangs are a dime a dozen - think a 94 mustang GT will ever be worth anything, even if its the first one made of the year? It is the first of a new body style, but they made so many of them that they can be found for dirt cheap.
They aren't 40 years old yet.