Perhaps that good enough for you... having all that you can handle on the street.

But I want MORE than I can handle on the street. In fact, I want so much more, that I laugh myself silly every time I drive. Currently I feel my car is slow and it makes me yawn sometimes.

For us guys that haven't already invested in a built bottom end, this block would have given us a few extra options that we previously didn't have... and in my book, that's a damn good thing!

In the end, we are all just swinging around our E-**** here, bitching and venting about yet another LTX let down.

96capricemgr - For the record, I respect a lot of what you post on these boards and agree with most of your opinions. I lurk and read, you always contribute in the LT1 section and I would notice your absence... just busting your *****.

 

Thanks for labeling all us LT1 guys poor... I got plenty of money and don"t mind spending it.

I really can't understand why the few of you hate to see a large cube option become available to the LTX... it's almost like you view it as a step back or something.

Yah... LS1/2/3/6 have better heads, hell it's a all around better motor. But the options are what drove their success.

 

it would have been a step forward, but i think most viewing it as a cost effective alternative to a 383 or 396 "race motor" would be quite disappointed. Plus... it would have been an SHP block, not a little m where you're really getting added strength, improved oiling/cooling, etc

 

I agree 100%

I just like blowing money out my ***... truthfully... if I had some semblance of restraint I'd be rich by now.

 

This is true.

 

x2.

seems to me like the "big guys" here just dont want their special block in the hands of guys w/ street cars. The fact that you can do whatever with a stock block is no reason not to have a better one.

you build your car how you want it, and Ill build mine the way I want it. That is what the hobby is about.

 

I do not have a stroker yet and I am saying I have my hands full. I am fairly certain more stroke would make things interesting.

I don't think anyone is saying the Dart block would have been a bad thing. What we are saying is the community as a whole is NOT utilizing the block we have and that in the end the sales would not have been there for Dart to sell this cheap AND turn a profit which is afterall what businesses are there to do, make money.

 

It's simple enough to convert the heads to conventional cooling, then use the GM Bowtie block made for the one piece rear mains and factory roller cam.
All internams and your oil pan will still fit.

It's a fact that not enough LT1 ownners would step up and buy one, it would take the sale of several hundred blocks for Dart to turn much of a profit. Look at the LTX shoot-out car counts, then look at the LSX shoot-outs. Most LT1 racers, (which are NHRA Stock and Super Stock racers), that could afford one are restricted by the rules to GM blocks, so couldn't use them if they were available. The LT1 is not used for much else but street cars.

 

I'm sure the above facts didn't take them by surprise, so why even try? It's been a known fact for yeas LT1 enthusiasts and even owners have been dwindling to nothing.

 

The block is $1500, THEN you got to machine it, it doesnt come ready to assemble.

For less than $800(including Pro Gram main caps) you could od EVERY trick in the book to an LT1 factory block and build 1000 hp and be reliable.

Torque "potential" LMAO I can set these 325/50's ON FIRE from a 30 roll on. With a six speed I would put down upper 400's in torque, 435 now...torque "potential" hmmm.

You could take my setup, put a hyd roller in it with a six speed behind it make damn near 500 to the wheels and daily drive it. I dont see the confusion here.

There is no need for that block, too many 383/396's make less than 450 to the wheels with a STICK. VERY few make that with an auto.

Spend your money where it needs to be spent to make power, I would rather say I gotta 600 hp 383 than a 500 hp 427. If more people spent the dollars on the CORRECT setup the LT1 would show alot more of its potential.

 

Well, my na 383" (532 rwhp with non-lockup 4400 converter, and through mufflers) pushed cylinder walls around so bad it would make about ten 1/4 mile passes before the breathers began to get damp. That is with a vacuum pump. First pass with the hone and you could see right where the Hard Block stopped. Splayed steel caps stopped the bottom end from moving around, never did get the cylinders to stay. My Super Stock engine does not have that problem but it is a stock compression 355". It only makes a little over 450at the tires, but that is through a 6000 RPM torque converter.

 

468rwhp un-locked vigilante 4200 converter w/ slicks on a land a sea dyno here.....383 cubes is plenty for the air our 23 degree heads can flow

but just to throw it out there I would be interested in swapping all my 385ci components into a stronger block with less flex if one were to be avilable.....oh well ill just stick with my valley girdles and billet mains for now its holding up just fine and I'm shifting at 8000

 

There is one available from GM. Just a little work on the heads to redirect the water flow. Not a big deal. Put an MSD distibutor in the back to loose the Opti and your set.

 

I'm going with a single plane this winter so I was thinking of ditching the opti and going with a distributor anyway. I'll check it out.

Thanks,
Mike V

 

That brings up another point I made when this idea of Dart building a block first hit.

Most of you want to do away with everything that seperates and LT1 from a gen 1 anyway. You mistakenly think the intake is bad, the distributor is bad, the waterpump is bad.

 

The intake is by no means "bad" I made peak power at 7400 rpm with it, it is just not the best option to keep up with a high flowing high reving big cube motor. The log design just doesn't work that efficently. The intake is a great design for most LTx Head/Cam platforms however when you start making peak usable power up around 7-8k rpm the stock intake doesn't really do the job that well. You can see this if you monitor your EGT's on all of your cylinders. As for the distributor yes I will say, it is a bad design. I'm using a crank trigger and I would kind of like to be able to change my cap and rotor without removing half the front of my motor. I like the water pump though lol.

 

i dont remember official pricing being given, but this is a valid arguement, so touche.

i dont see how this supports your argument that "we dont need this block." First, is that 1000hp going to be streetable? Will it be naturally aspirated? Hydraulic roller? Again, some of us want more cubes for streetability, NOT because we've already pushed and exceeded the limit of the stock block. We dont "need" a stock 285hp V8 either, isnt a V6 good enough?

I dont see how this is a valid arguement either. Why cant i have mid 500s if ive got the money to spend? Go back to the 60s/70s and try telling people their big blocks arent necessary because you have a fast 350. ...yea

And the same setup with more cubes would make more would it not?

No need says who? If everyone was content with what the LT1 was capable of, why have so many switched to LS? Im pretty sure LS cars are still faster, so its all subjective. There are strokers in that power range because thats where they WANT to be.

I completely agree with spending money correctly however I would NOT rather build more power with less cubes. (for my goals). Given the same power level and budget, an engine with less CI is almost always going to be less street friendly. Just because your build goals are "HP per liter" doesnt mean I want mine to be.

Am I saying this block would have succeeded? No. I have no ground to argue that and in fact I think it was doomed myself. But some of the things being said in this thread are ridiculous IMO. We all have different goals for our builds and we all have different budgets.

 

I was a little disappointed to see this turned down, as I planned on just putting in a used engine to get my car back on the road, then buying a Dart block once available, then start buying all of the parts here and there to build it up to a 21* TFS 427 to make a killer street/RR motor.

The good thing is, I'll save some money now. I'll just pull my current 4-bolt block and build up a 385 using the SRP 4.040" pistons I already have sitting here and just get some Scat rods and an Ohio Cranks 3.75" crank, and I'll build on what I already have. Still will go with fully ported 21* TFS heads though .

 

wow, i think jouliusz28 has very good vies. and we all have diffrent views on a build that we want to do, a can afford to do.

 

Fastfatboy you hit it right on the head