GM race shop block
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 631
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From: Orlando
One day lets say in 20 years LTx's are going to be what yenko camaros are today. All the Sh** talkers are going to be gone and forgotten and chevy enthusiasts are going to respect you when you have an LT1/4 in 2030. By then im sure the market for LT's will be back and running. Never underestimate LT's when they have an advantage over SBC. Not cubes but compression. Who needs cubes when you have compression. 600hp NA on pump gas in the future with LT's should be cake. Heck After LSX, LTX is back 
but without the opti. Personally Id rather show up to a meet and say I have a 1000hp LTx and not an LSX, because who wants something everyone else has. IMO id rather have something only a hand full of people in the world have and still be as good as LSX. Now Dart quit being little bitches and produce an aftermarket LT block dammit 
lol Us LT guys have gone through enough suffering already. Time to do something different. 
but without the opti. Personally Id rather show up to a meet and say I have a 1000hp LTx and not an LSX, because who wants something everyone else has. IMO id rather have something only a hand full of people in the world have and still be as good as LSX. Now Dart quit being little bitches and produce an aftermarket LT block dammit lol Us LT guys have gone through enough suffering already. Time to do something different. That's an interesting analogy. Kinda like all those people saying the 348/409 engines were better than the new 396 engine that replaced the W block.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 631
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From: Orlando
In no way am I saying Gen 2 SBC is better then LSX or future LT small block. The Gen 2 big block is in every form better then the 409's
Yenko or 69 COPO Stand Alone as Rare Bitchin Camaros The LT1/4 were the Bad Boy till the LSx came out Yes it would be nice if some foundry would pour us some big bore blocks!!! Guess I can go by the foundry I worked at after high school 20yrs ago & see if they can do it LoL If theyre not closed down like GenCorp & Borg Warner!!!!!!!
The LT1/4 were the Bad Boy till the LSx came out Yes it would be nice if some foundry would pour us some big bore blocks!!! Guess I can go by the foundry I worked at after high school 20yrs ago & see if they can do it LoL If theyre not closed down like GenCorp & Borg Warner!!!!!!! 
W blocks (like the LT1/LT4) were not around long enough to get the upgrades that the other chevy v8 engines have enjoyed. SBC/BBC/LSx have all enjoyed a much longer production, along with major factory and aftermarket support. In all honesty, was the 396 that much better than the 409 it replaced?? Top models of each in factory trim: 396 with 425HP.....409 also with 425HP. Then in 66 the 427 bbc came out (also rated @ 425HP) but there had been a 427 W block engine as early as late 62.
Have any of you seen a well built W motor in person? Did you know that you can take a stock 409 block to over 500 cid?? You can even get pretty close to 500" with nothing more than a machined 454 crankshaft. There are also 2 different aftermarket aluminum blocks, 1 aftermarket cast iron block, and at least 5 different aluminum cylinder heads being made for them.
Now that I've stirred the pot a little bit I will say that I do agree that the Mark IV bbc that replaced the 348/409 is a far superior design and has been taken to heights that surpass pretty much any engine family ever. They are my favorite engine and I probably have more bbc parts than most of you have of LT1 stuff. The lil 433" big block in my 61 makes very near 700 hp and cost less to build than alot of people have in the cylinder heads of their 496 or 540 that doesn't make much more power. I'd still trade it in a heartbeat for a built 409 based motor that made 100 less HP just for the coolness factor of it.
I doubt the LT1/LT4 will ever come close to the fame of the 409, but I know that there are already people who feel the same way about them vs. their replacement.
Have any of you seen a well built W motor in person? Did you know that you can take a stock 409 block to over 500 cid?? You can even get pretty close to 500" with nothing more than a machined 454 crankshaft. There are also 2 different aftermarket aluminum blocks, 1 aftermarket cast iron block, and at least 5 different aluminum cylinder heads being made for them.
Now that I've stirred the pot a little bit I will say that I do agree that the Mark IV bbc that replaced the 348/409 is a far superior design and has been taken to heights that surpass pretty much any engine family ever. They are my favorite engine and I probably have more bbc parts than most of you have of LT1 stuff. The lil 433" big block in my 61 makes very near 700 hp and cost less to build than alot of people have in the cylinder heads of their 496 or 540 that doesn't make much more power. I'd still trade it in a heartbeat for a built 409 based motor that made 100 less HP just for the coolness factor of it.
I doubt the LT1/LT4 will ever come close to the fame of the 409, but I know that there are already people who feel the same way about them vs. their replacement.
I posted this question in another thread but it was never answered. From what i've read keeping the crank from walking is the main issue with the stock LT blocks? Is anyone running a main girdle with 4 bolt mains? Like what the ford guys do.
I've heard of some people running main girdles, but I don't think they are very necessary. I bet that either a good 4 bolt block or a splayed 4 bolt conversion on a 2 bolt block will be fine. LT1 blocks aren't any more likely to have crank walk than SBC's.
You could upgrade the main caps to forged, pin them and of course, use studs. Stud girdles adds a small bit of insurance.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,023
Likes: 6
From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
You could upgrade the main caps to forged, pin them and of course, use studs. Stud girdles adds a small bit of insurance.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
OH WAIT! Billet, pinned, splayed caps on my 4340 non-twist crank holding my billet rods
You could upgrade the main caps to forged, pin them and of course, use studs. Stud girdles adds a small bit of insurance.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
W blocks have crap heads. Sure, you can get them to perform but MKIV heads were better right out the door. The W motor became a door stop overnight.
I know of quite a few that make power equivalent to your 600HP 496 with similar displacement and not ulta high dollar parts.
Lots of people feel the same way about LT1/LT4's and think that all they amount to is doorstops since the LS1 came out, but I still see plenty of bad a$$ LT1's on here all the time. Are there also bad LS1's/BBC's? Of course. Are there more bad LS1's/BBC's? Definately......BUT that does not mean that LT1's or the old W motors SUCK.
W engines had flat valve sides and it was impossible to form and control a proper combustion chamber. Mercedes Benz tried it and dumped it before Chevrolet did.
If you folks want more cubes and all say you'd buy an aftermarket block if it was made, why not just convert to SBC? You'd have to update to a F.A.S.T. or EFIConnections system which is certainly better than the Opti system. You'd have the best of both worlds-better fuel injection & ignition and a better block.
OR make the move to the World Products Motown LS block. Still a SBC but you'd use the way better LS style heads. The best of three worlds!
If you folks want more cubes and all say you'd buy an aftermarket block if it was made, why not just convert to SBC? You'd have to update to a F.A.S.T. or EFIConnections system which is certainly better than the Opti system. You'd have the best of both worlds-better fuel injection & ignition and a better block.
OR make the move to the World Products Motown LS block. Still a SBC but you'd use the way better LS style heads. The best of three worlds!
They have a proper combustion chamber.....it is just located in the cylinder block instead of the cylinder head. Did you know they are less prone to detonation than bbc's? (comparing stock to stock) Kinda like our LT1's are less prone due to reverse flow cooling.
I have often wondered why people who swap to the 24x setup stay with an LT1. Why not just go to an old 400 block and some good/available sbc heads and adapt the LT1 intake to it (like so many do for use on L98's)? It would bolt right in and still look like the old LT1.
As far as swapping in a LS based engine.....the expense is so great to get into a basic powerplant swapped in that it just makes more sense to buy a 98-02 model to begin with....or sell your LT1 car and then buy one.
I have often wondered why people who swap to the 24x setup stay with an LT1. Why not just go to an old 400 block and some good/available sbc heads and adapt the LT1 intake to it (like so many do for use on L98's)? It would bolt right in and still look like the old LT1.
As far as swapping in a LS based engine.....the expense is so great to get into a basic powerplant swapped in that it just makes more sense to buy a 98-02 model to begin with....or sell your LT1 car and then buy one.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,299
Likes: 2
From: windsor, ont. canada - Home of the fastest LT1 6spd.
anyone willing to spend 5K for a ltx block?
lol! if i ever break this motor i will either go LS or SBC gen 1. alot of parts will work on an SBC. back from the dead!!!!
lol! if i ever break this motor i will either go LS or SBC gen 1. alot of parts will work on an SBC. back from the dead!!!!
They have a proper combustion chamber.....it is just located in the cylinder block instead of the cylinder head. Did you know they are less prone to detonation than bbc's? (comparing stock to stock) Kinda like our LT1's are less prone due to reverse flow cooling.
I have often wondered why people who swap to the 24x setup stay with an LT1. Why not just go to an old 400 block and some good/available sbc heads and adapt the LT1 intake to it (like so many do for use on L98's)? It would bolt right in and still look like the old LT1.
As far as swapping in a LS based engine.....the expense is so great to get into a basic powerplant swapped in that it just makes more sense to buy a 98-02 model to begin with....or sell your LT1 car and then buy one.
I have often wondered why people who swap to the 24x setup stay with an LT1. Why not just go to an old 400 block and some good/available sbc heads and adapt the LT1 intake to it (like so many do for use on L98's)? It would bolt right in and still look like the old LT1.
As far as swapping in a LS based engine.....the expense is so great to get into a basic powerplant swapped in that it just makes more sense to buy a 98-02 model to begin with....or sell your LT1 car and then buy one.