GM race shop block
#102
8 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
LT Bowtie Blocks --- The Truth and a Little History
These blocks were cast during a time at GM Racing when "Pet Projects" and "Great Ideas" were given green lights without any hesitation! I spent almost 4-days of every month in Michigan at GM Racing and GM Performance Product Planning Meetings during this time (1992 thru 1999). On a side note it must be understood that GM Parts, GM Performance Parts, and GM Racing are THREE separate entities with THREE spearate agendas, THREE separate management teams --- some items cross over some do not! I personally brought the topic of the LT Bowtie block to the table at some point during this time to the GM Performance Team. As we looked into the LT block there where several issues that came up during this time related to castings and the current maching center for OEM LT blocks! We knew a new engine was coming (LS) and we were also aware of some discussion concerning the Flint V8 Engine Plant (where all LT engines were built and all Small Block Chevrolet engines since about 1965!!) -- it was in need of some serious upgrades and eventually they closed the plant (very sad day!). While all of this was taking place the GM Performance Team elected not to pursue the project because of some tooling and machining issues that they felt could not be resolved without spending some serious cash --- as I recall the original tooling was located at Saginaw Grey Iron and was designed for their foundry and as such it was designed for pouring large quantities for GM! They had no interest in making short runs with this tooling to make a "Bowtie" block.
A member of the GM Race Team had a "Pet Project"! He wanted the block done for several reasons that involved not only some upper level management thought processes (one was a 400ci LT4 option for the 1996 Corvette); GM Racing was heavily invclved in the Corvette Showroom stock racing (and other Race Series) -- the block could be of great benefit to these teams, but he had a personal LT project and he would make sure the initial engineering was pushed thru! He worked with the foundry that was pouring the SBC Bowtie blocks to make temporary tooling for a short run. I am almost certain that a friend of mine at Uni-Bore machined the castings (Uni-Bore machined all Bowtie blocks at this time -- that is no longer true today).
There was one 400ci LT4 Corvette built -- I saw the car and drove the car! It had a really cool "400/LT4" emblem.
A couple of blocks made it into the hands of Corvette race teams.
A few went to the Jon Moss group for Chevrolet Special Vehicles.
One block was given to a team member that helped build the 400ci Vette.
The remaining blocks were sent to the GM Racing warehouse.
Things began to unravel fast! This team member was moved to a different group in GM. The GM Performance manager moved to a different area and the new manager wanted all new projects to be focused around the new LS platform. Soon all was forgotten about this project!
I personally kept an eye on these blocks during all these years and tried to buy them on numerous occasions.
Tony, you mentioned my good friend in a PM -- Bob Cross from GM Racing -- he was involved with the castings and machining however it was not his "Pet Project". After years of my begging, Bob saved these blocks from being scrapped and arranged for me to buy them! I knew that crazy LT gearheads would appreciate the LT Bowtie block and it was my desire to make it happen. Little did they know it would be a piece of GM history! My friend (of 25-plus years) Bob Cross was killed in an auto accident earlier this month -- God bless Bob for all he did for me. SDPC, and the true spirit of Chevrolet racing enthusiasts. In one way or another almost every item in the GM Performance Parts catalog has some influence or touch from Bob Cross.
GM has no interest in making Bowtie LT blocks today -- PERIOD.
We have spoken to Dart and others before about this --- if I see enough interest we will carry this forward! It will take more than 40-blocks to get the ball rolling for a small case study to provide you with some decent info to make a decision --- mainly your cost.
Send your PM's to John!
If I see 50 requests (serious buyers) we will get some answers and together we can make a decision!
Nicky Fowler
SDPC -- The Boss!
These blocks were cast during a time at GM Racing when "Pet Projects" and "Great Ideas" were given green lights without any hesitation! I spent almost 4-days of every month in Michigan at GM Racing and GM Performance Product Planning Meetings during this time (1992 thru 1999). On a side note it must be understood that GM Parts, GM Performance Parts, and GM Racing are THREE separate entities with THREE spearate agendas, THREE separate management teams --- some items cross over some do not! I personally brought the topic of the LT Bowtie block to the table at some point during this time to the GM Performance Team. As we looked into the LT block there where several issues that came up during this time related to castings and the current maching center for OEM LT blocks! We knew a new engine was coming (LS) and we were also aware of some discussion concerning the Flint V8 Engine Plant (where all LT engines were built and all Small Block Chevrolet engines since about 1965!!) -- it was in need of some serious upgrades and eventually they closed the plant (very sad day!). While all of this was taking place the GM Performance Team elected not to pursue the project because of some tooling and machining issues that they felt could not be resolved without spending some serious cash --- as I recall the original tooling was located at Saginaw Grey Iron and was designed for their foundry and as such it was designed for pouring large quantities for GM! They had no interest in making short runs with this tooling to make a "Bowtie" block.
A member of the GM Race Team had a "Pet Project"! He wanted the block done for several reasons that involved not only some upper level management thought processes (one was a 400ci LT4 option for the 1996 Corvette); GM Racing was heavily invclved in the Corvette Showroom stock racing (and other Race Series) -- the block could be of great benefit to these teams, but he had a personal LT project and he would make sure the initial engineering was pushed thru! He worked with the foundry that was pouring the SBC Bowtie blocks to make temporary tooling for a short run. I am almost certain that a friend of mine at Uni-Bore machined the castings (Uni-Bore machined all Bowtie blocks at this time -- that is no longer true today).
There was one 400ci LT4 Corvette built -- I saw the car and drove the car! It had a really cool "400/LT4" emblem.
A couple of blocks made it into the hands of Corvette race teams.
A few went to the Jon Moss group for Chevrolet Special Vehicles.
One block was given to a team member that helped build the 400ci Vette.
The remaining blocks were sent to the GM Racing warehouse.
Things began to unravel fast! This team member was moved to a different group in GM. The GM Performance manager moved to a different area and the new manager wanted all new projects to be focused around the new LS platform. Soon all was forgotten about this project!
I personally kept an eye on these blocks during all these years and tried to buy them on numerous occasions.
Tony, you mentioned my good friend in a PM -- Bob Cross from GM Racing -- he was involved with the castings and machining however it was not his "Pet Project". After years of my begging, Bob saved these blocks from being scrapped and arranged for me to buy them! I knew that crazy LT gearheads would appreciate the LT Bowtie block and it was my desire to make it happen. Little did they know it would be a piece of GM history! My friend (of 25-plus years) Bob Cross was killed in an auto accident earlier this month -- God bless Bob for all he did for me. SDPC, and the true spirit of Chevrolet racing enthusiasts. In one way or another almost every item in the GM Performance Parts catalog has some influence or touch from Bob Cross.
GM has no interest in making Bowtie LT blocks today -- PERIOD.
We have spoken to Dart and others before about this --- if I see enough interest we will carry this forward! It will take more than 40-blocks to get the ball rolling for a small case study to provide you with some decent info to make a decision --- mainly your cost.
Send your PM's to John!
If I see 50 requests (serious buyers) we will get some answers and together we can make a decision!
Nicky Fowler
SDPC -- The Boss!
Thank you for the detailed reply and history of the block. I can't believe Bob was killed recently. I just talked to him a couple of months ago about this block. RIP Bob Cross!
#106
Staging Lane
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cordova, IL.
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I would be interested in a new block if they are made.
If I have to spend $3000 on up for an aftermarket block I will be changing platforms.
Hell with the money I put in my short block I could have bought a 632 with an aftermarket block. Then tack on what I'm putting in the new heads and money isn't really the big thing.
If I have to spend $3000 on up for an aftermarket block I will be changing platforms.
Hell with the money I put in my short block I could have bought a 632 with an aftermarket block. Then tack on what I'm putting in the new heads and money isn't really the big thing.
#108
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SFL
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I'm sure more people would buy it if it were out in large quantities, thus lowering the price from that crazy $3,000 tag.. But it sucks because no one will make it without absolute assurance that people will buy it.
#110
Staging Lane
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cordova, IL.
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
No but look at your prices of the sbc bowtie block. $1700-2400. Then look at the machine work that is needed for all serious builds. Compair that price to what cncblocks gets for a sbc which is just about ready for assembly.
I would give them $2500 right now any more is like getting concert tickets from scalpers it happens every day just not to me. I know they won't have a problem selling it either.
#112
hashtagBMW
iTrader: (38)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I would be interested in a new block if they are made.
If I have to spend $3000 on up for an aftermarket block I will be changing platforms.
Hell with the money I put in my short block I could have bought a 632 with an aftermarket block. Then tack on what I'm putting in the new heads and money isn't really the big thing.
If I have to spend $3000 on up for an aftermarket block I will be changing platforms.
Hell with the money I put in my short block I could have bought a 632 with an aftermarket block. Then tack on what I'm putting in the new heads and money isn't really the big thing.
#113
TECH Resident
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WACO, TX
Posts: 838
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
ok, i see all these numbers thrown around! so if we got 50 people to SERIOUSLY commit what are we talkin bout? 1500$? 3000$? that is the determining factor right now!
and also what kind of cubes are we lookin at? is 4.125 the max bore? and what kind of stroke, 4"?
and also what kind of cubes are we lookin at? is 4.125 the max bore? and what kind of stroke, 4"?
#115
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Thanks for the awesome informative post. I love that kind of stuff.
Also, thanks a ton for trying to help us out. Sadly, 50 "for sure" responses seems out of reach to me. I could imagine MAYBE 10 people from here that would really pony up the cash.
Its still something to hope for. Like I said before, I would sell my complete, assembled 0 miles shortblock for this bare block in a heartbeat...but not a lot of others would be willing or able.
Also, thanks a ton for trying to help us out. Sadly, 50 "for sure" responses seems out of reach to me. I could imagine MAYBE 10 people from here that would really pony up the cash.
Its still something to hope for. Like I said before, I would sell my complete, assembled 0 miles shortblock for this bare block in a heartbeat...but not a lot of others would be willing or able.
#118
TECH Junkie
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SFL
Posts: 3,011
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Yeah, I am sure there are plenty of people out there, but without some kind of advertisement, we've got nothing. Maybe GM High Tech can include something on their next issue?
edit: just sent them an email about it and referred them to this page
edit: just sent them an email about it and referred them to this page
Last edited by 1badzee; 05-26-2010 at 08:20 PM.
#119
Teching In
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: McKinney, tx
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I agree, I wouldn't have known it was even a possibility unless i hopped on here, and I don't come on this forum much.
My thought is that if it is $3K thats not that bad considering a rearend is about the same price. It's affordable for those that want it.
My thought is that if it is $3K thats not that bad considering a rearend is about the same price. It's affordable for those that want it.
#120
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: seminole,fl
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/ranks/ls1tech10year.png)
![Default](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
it to late for me ive sold all my lt stuff and bought a lsx block......lt1 is a good motor and i liked it....im going ls because i want more cubes....ford has so many difrent motors and gm should too........