Some pics of my intake set up
07-28-2010, 09:09 PM
#41
im not claiming im guessing around that.. could be 460,450 or 480..motor wont ever see a dyno anyways so ill never know.
like i posted above you have m6 cam'ed full bolt on cars with power stearing,a/c,full exh and stock comp doing 350-380 rwhp..so there losing atleast 50hp threw the drive train..which now puts them at 400-430hp at the fly wheel..
im figuring with the extra point of comp,race gas,no acc's,less restrictive exh,better intake port lay out an oh i forgot to say im using the old valve cover evac **** on the motor also..ill be around 470.
like i posted above you have m6 cam'ed full bolt on cars with power stearing,a/c,full exh and stock comp doing 350-380 rwhp..so there losing atleast 50hp threw the drive train..which now puts them at 400-430hp at the fly wheel..
im figuring with the extra point of comp,race gas,no acc's,less restrictive exh,better intake port lay out an oh i forgot to say im using the old valve cover evac **** on the motor also..ill be around 470.
07-28-2010, 09:24 PM
#43
an damn a @ 50 duration cam of 242/248 is a mild hyd roller..hmm thats odd because thats more on the high side for hyd rollers seeing most change or will go with a solid roller once out the 250 duration range..lol
an you do know the curb weight of a lt1 is around 3300#s right..now factor in the driver 150#s and your 3450 an up at race weight.
my **** will be 2900#s with me in it..if you been on the track you know how big of a diff just 50# can do to a low hp car.
07-28-2010, 09:35 PM
#46
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I have never posted in the Bowman threads over there.I spend more time reading all about the wanna be racecar builders over there too. That site has gone to hell in the last couple years with all the wanna be's.
07-28-2010, 09:58 PM
#47
400 rear wheel has been done on stock heads with a shim gasket... but not with what I would call a streetable solid roller, and definitely NOTHING like a 242/248 on a 112. The stock eliminator guys have a valve job that probably costs more than your whole motor to make the power they do so....
07-28-2010, 10:01 PM
#48
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I think you will be in the 11's somewhere.
Im going to have a little over 500 FW HP on my 95 T/A with close to your race weight and I will be very happy to hit 10.9. Well, thats my goal for the car.
Im going to have a little over 500 FW HP on my 95 T/A with close to your race weight and I will be very happy to hit 10.9. Well, thats my goal for the car.
07-28-2010, 11:18 PM
#50
lol it all is till your on the track..and then once your off it and back at home on your pc its bench racing still..
if you dont think a 470hp engine will push a 2900# car with driver in the low 11s an 10s then you need to open your eyes.
dont forget the lt1 bolt on record is 11.48 an that was stock long block with just rockers at 3100#s...tom dynoed around 310rwhp with that deal.
**** look at gizmo's car not as much hp as ill make and runs 11.0s i think..also is heavier.
if you dont think a 470hp engine will push a 2900# car with driver in the low 11s an 10s then you need to open your eyes.
dont forget the lt1 bolt on record is 11.48 an that was stock long block with just rockers at 3100#s...tom dynoed around 310rwhp with that deal.
**** look at gizmo's car not as much hp as ill make and runs 11.0s i think..also is heavier.
). The heads just don't flow enough. ***EXCESSIVE BENCH RACING AHEAD***
CR helps, but at those power levels 1pt compression is only worth a handful of ponies - less then 10hp going by the 3-4% per point rule...you wont see much over 425 flywheel without boost on stock heads. Race gas I doubt will be a measurable difference at your low compression. No PS or WP drag sounds good on paper but does not always equate to a measurable change at the track, and ditching the AC...well...only helps if you race with it on
. Single Plane intakes are proven to not be worth much of anything at stock cubes, let alone on stock heads. Not sure what you mean by "valve cover Evac ****", but if you mean a crankcase vacuum pump, don't expect it to be worth any power.For those really into bench racing, the theoretical maximum power for a factory stock headed 350 LT1 achieving 100% VE is ~420 flywheel @ ~6300 rpms...or 370rwhp through a stock rear end/manual. That just happens to be the higher end of the spectrum that most "cam only" builds put down, and its not just a coincidence. In some rare cases a professional race engine can exceed 100%VE - sometimes by quite a bit in certain RPM ranges - but this is not a professional race engine.
***/BENCH RACE***
I think you are giving the stock heads way too much credit. They are alright compared to 60's SBC tech, but compared to anything modern they are trash. Porting helps a ton, but you still are left with the inherently poor shape unless you spend mucho dinero epoxy/welding them.
My final "Educated Guess"? 430 flywheel/380rwhp through a 10bolt/M6. Who gives a **** how much power it makes though? You shouldnt chase a dyno number.
It may only make a far cry from 470, but it will be plenty of power to go fast at 2900#s with a dialed in suspension.
Still wish you luck and would love to see the car run a nice number
07-28-2010, 11:18 PM
#51
http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php
07-28-2010, 11:24 PM
#52
My comment about optimism was not about the times, but the power numbers. You have an edge by not being rpm limited by the stock computer, and extra compression, but you will not make 470fwhp NA on stock heads with an "SBC looking" low lift 242int cam(not a good NA grind, but I understand its not meant to be an NA car ). The heads just don't flow enough.
***EXCESSIVE BENCH RACING AHEAD***
CR helps, but at those power levels 1pt compression is only worth a handful of ponies - less then 10hp going by the 3-4% per point rule...you wont see much over 425 flywheel without boost on stock heads. Race gas I doubt will be a measurable difference at your low compression. No PS or WP drag sounds good on paper but does not always equate to a measurable change at the track, and ditching the AC...well...only helps if you race with it on. Single Plane intakes are proven to not be worth much of anything at stock cubes, let alone on stock heads. Not sure what you mean by "valve cover Evac ****", but if you mean a crankcase vacuum pump, don't expect it to be worth any power.
For those really into bench racing, the theoretical maximum power for a factory stock headed 350 LT1 achieving 100% VE is ~420 flywheel @ ~6300 rpms...or 370rwhp through a stock rear end/manual. That just happens to be the higher end of the spectrum that most "cam only" builds put down, and its not just a coincidence. In some rare cases a professional race engine can exceed 100%VE - sometimes by quite a bit in certain RPM ranges - but this is not a professional race engine.
***/BENCH RACE***
I think you are giving the stock heads way too much credit. They are alright compared to 60's SBC tech, but compared to anything modern they are trash. Porting helps a ton, but you still are left with the inherently poor shape unless you spend mucho dinero epoxy/welding them.
My final "Educated Guess"? 430 flywheel/380rwhp through a 10bolt/M6. Who gives a **** how much power it makes though? You shouldnt chase a dyno number.
It may only make a far cry from 470, but it will be plenty of power to go fast at 2900#s with a dialed in suspension.
Still wish you luck and would love to see the car run a nice number
). The heads just don't flow enough. ***EXCESSIVE BENCH RACING AHEAD***
CR helps, but at those power levels 1pt compression is only worth a handful of ponies - less then 10hp going by the 3-4% per point rule...you wont see much over 425 flywheel without boost on stock heads. Race gas I doubt will be a measurable difference at your low compression. No PS or WP drag sounds good on paper but does not always equate to a measurable change at the track, and ditching the AC...well...only helps if you race with it on
. Single Plane intakes are proven to not be worth much of anything at stock cubes, let alone on stock heads. Not sure what you mean by "valve cover Evac ****", but if you mean a crankcase vacuum pump, don't expect it to be worth any power.For those really into bench racing, the theoretical maximum power for a factory stock headed 350 LT1 achieving 100% VE is ~420 flywheel @ ~6300 rpms...or 370rwhp through a stock rear end/manual. That just happens to be the higher end of the spectrum that most "cam only" builds put down, and its not just a coincidence. In some rare cases a professional race engine can exceed 100%VE - sometimes by quite a bit in certain RPM ranges - but this is not a professional race engine.
***/BENCH RACE***
I think you are giving the stock heads way too much credit. They are alright compared to 60's SBC tech, but compared to anything modern they are trash. Porting helps a ton, but you still are left with the inherently poor shape unless you spend mucho dinero epoxy/welding them.
My final "Educated Guess"? 430 flywheel/380rwhp through a 10bolt/M6. Who gives a **** how much power it makes though? You shouldnt chase a dyno number.
It may only make a far cry from 470, but it will be plenty of power to go fast at 2900#s with a dialed in suspension.
Still wish you luck and would love to see the car run a nice number
but im running low lift seeing the stock heads are dead after .550 lift if you look at the flow numbers..theres no point to even run more lift..ill get into the rest when i get off work this morning..im running late
07-29-2010, 12:21 AM
#53
but im running low lift seeing the stock heads are dead after .550 lift if you look at the flow numbers..theres no point to even run more lift
07-29-2010, 04:06 AM
#54
yes it could you are right...the stock heads flow there max at or around .500 lift..From .500-.525 there around the same and then to .550 there at a full stall in air speed/flow so your only at a decline from there..
a lil higher lift after there ports stall to make up deflection in the valve train,an also so you dwell a lil longer in your max range for your heads is a good thing..but you dont want to be killing your springs either..if you have a head that lays over at .700 lift you aint going to run .850 for lift..theres no point least ive not learned of one yet.
a lil higher lift after there ports stall to make up deflection in the valve train,an also so you dwell a lil longer in your max range for your heads is a good thing..but you dont want to be killing your springs either..if you have a head that lays over at .700 lift you aint going to run .850 for lift..theres no point least ive not learned of one yet.
07-29-2010, 04:43 AM
#55
My comment about optimism was not about the times, but the power numbers. You have an edge by not being rpm limited by the stock computer, and extra compression, but you will not make 470fwhp NA on stock heads with an "SBC looking" low lift 242int cam(not a good NA grind, but I understand its not meant to be an NA car ). The heads just don't flow enough.
***EXCESSIVE BENCH RACING AHEAD***
CR helps, but at those power levels 1pt compression is only worth a handful of ponies - less then 10hp going by the 3-4% per point rule...you wont see much over 425 flywheel without boost on stock heads. Race gas I doubt will be a measurable difference at your low compression. No PS or WP drag sounds good on paper but does not always equate to a measurable change at the track, and ditching the AC...well...only helps if you race with it on. Single Plane intakes are proven to not be worth much of anything at stock cubes, let alone on stock heads. Not sure what you mean by "valve cover Evac ****", but if you mean a crankcase vacuum pump, don't expect it to be worth any power.
For those really into bench racing, the theoretical maximum power for a factory stock headed 350 LT1 achieving 100% VE is ~420 flywheel @ ~6300 rpms...or 370rwhp through a stock rear end/manual. That just happens to be the higher end of the spectrum that most "cam only" builds put down, and its not just a coincidence. In some rare cases a professional race engine can exceed 100%VE - sometimes by quite a bit in certain RPM ranges - but this is not a professional race engine.
***/BENCH RACE***
I think you are giving the stock heads way too much credit. They are alright compared to 60's SBC tech, but compared to anything modern they are trash. Porting helps a ton, but you still are left with the inherently poor shape unless you spend mucho dinero epoxy/welding them.
My final "Educated Guess"? 430 flywheel/380rwhp through a 10bolt/M6. Who gives a **** how much power it makes though? You shouldnt chase a dyno number.
It may only make a far cry from 470, but it will be plenty of power to go fast at 2900#s with a dialed in suspension.
Still wish you luck and would love to see the car run a nice number
). The heads just don't flow enough. ***EXCESSIVE BENCH RACING AHEAD***
CR helps, but at those power levels 1pt compression is only worth a handful of ponies - less then 10hp going by the 3-4% per point rule...you wont see much over 425 flywheel without boost on stock heads. Race gas I doubt will be a measurable difference at your low compression. No PS or WP drag sounds good on paper but does not always equate to a measurable change at the track, and ditching the AC...well...only helps if you race with it on
. Single Plane intakes are proven to not be worth much of anything at stock cubes, let alone on stock heads. Not sure what you mean by "valve cover Evac ****", but if you mean a crankcase vacuum pump, don't expect it to be worth any power.For those really into bench racing, the theoretical maximum power for a factory stock headed 350 LT1 achieving 100% VE is ~420 flywheel @ ~6300 rpms...or 370rwhp through a stock rear end/manual. That just happens to be the higher end of the spectrum that most "cam only" builds put down, and its not just a coincidence. In some rare cases a professional race engine can exceed 100%VE - sometimes by quite a bit in certain RPM ranges - but this is not a professional race engine.
***/BENCH RACE***
I think you are giving the stock heads way too much credit. They are alright compared to 60's SBC tech, but compared to anything modern they are trash. Porting helps a ton, but you still are left with the inherently poor shape unless you spend mucho dinero epoxy/welding them.
My final "Educated Guess"? 430 flywheel/380rwhp through a 10bolt/M6. Who gives a **** how much power it makes though? You shouldnt chase a dyno number.
It may only make a far cry from 470, but it will be plenty of power to go fast at 2900#s with a dialed in suspension.
Still wish you luck and would love to see the car run a nice number
the 3,4% rule i dont even go buy because every engien is diff an will respond to certian things differently..ive seen around 6 before on a dyno an going from 9.4-1 to 10.5-1..so just a tad over a point..
a oxgyenated race fuel will still show nice gains over pump gas even at them levels..like i have said i do have to figure out what the motor wants for fuel.
You are right no wp,ps or a/c wont gain me a ton of power but it is less drag on the motor and is worth something..if it wasnt and didnt matter all race cars would still have the **** on them..siting in a fire suit on a hot day in the lanes sucks.
To say a single plane aint worth much of anything on stock cubes or stock heads well i dont have to go into it..its clear they do help alot..theres only millions of dyno pulls that have proven this for 40 yrs now.
The valve cover crank case evap system is worth hp..you may not think it but it is..if it wasnt you wouldnt of seen it used on cars for the past 30 yrs..An a belt driven vac pump can gain you 30hp or better..
No your right this aint a fully worked over race engine with a billet crank,full custom port heads,low tension ring,vac pump,dry sump..but you even say it yourself cam only cars put down 370rwhp and are making around 420 at the fly wheel.my combo is alittle more then just a cam only deal.
As for the old 60s heads them old heads made 600+hp an stuff back in them days..dont forget that..them old fuelie heads ran good.
Now thanks for the wishs..like ive said already..motor wont ever see a dyno and nore do i care if it makes 470hp..im just guessing there and will never know unless some one buys it off me and dynos the pig.but i sure as hell aint
This engine is all about low dollar fun..i aint owned a drag car in a lil over 3 yrs now if i count this yr seeing i been building it this yr.I just want to get back on the track and have some fun.If i break a lt1 record or some **** with my ebay,craigslist,yb and ls1tech 2nd hand junk then no big deal nice..but i sure as hell aint chasing one..
07-29-2010, 01:26 PM
#56
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I'm a little more optimistic about this since I have seen what a mild cam in and LT1 in a 2900 pound S-10 can do.
We had a stock 94 LT1 and trannie combo, 3.73 gears in the stock s-10 10 bolt, on street tires it was crappy for 60 feet with a 2.8-2.5, but it still ran 13 ohs and a few 12.9s.
I think with all the accs gone and a car set -up for drag racing some very impressive times will follow.
We had a stock 94 LT1 and trannie combo, 3.73 gears in the stock s-10 10 bolt, on street tires it was crappy for 60 feet with a 2.8-2.5, but it still ran 13 ohs and a few 12.9s.
I think with all the accs gone and a car set -up for drag racing some very impressive times will follow.
07-29-2010, 03:57 PM
#57
I'm a little more optimistic about this since I have seen what a mild cam in and LT1 in a 2900 pound S-10 can do.
We had a stock 94 LT1 and trannie combo, 3.73 gears in the stock s-10 10 bolt, on street tires it was crappy for 60 feet with a 2.8-2.5, but it still ran 13 ohs and a few 12.9s.
I think with all the accs gone and a car set -up for drag racing some very impressive times will follow.
We had a stock 94 LT1 and trannie combo, 3.73 gears in the stock s-10 10 bolt, on street tires it was crappy for 60 feet with a 2.8-2.5, but it still ran 13 ohs and a few 12.9s.
I think with all the accs gone and a car set -up for drag racing some very impressive times will follow.
You can run all sorts of crazy times with low power - look at what Gizmo does with like 300rwhp. He is probably the most experienced person in this whole site at dialing in a car though. You could take his car apart and give it to 99% of the people here as a truck full of parts and they wouldn't run anywhere near what he does when they put it together.
The skepticism comes from making 470hp on stock heads that flow ~210cfm, which I don't see happening without boost
.Like I said though, I'm sure it will run like hell considering the rest of the combo.
07-29-2010, 04:13 PM
#58
yep the key will be in the suspension..luckly i know enough about setting up a suspension and tuning one where im not even scared..
my last 4th gen had best of 1.44 60ft on what i would call a almost true stock suspension meaning factory shocks,factory springs,air bag in the pass side,stock lower a arms with reloction brackets on the 9",She was stock..only none stock was the bmr tq arm with cross mount and frame connectors,no front sway an had 26x10 slicks.
this car will have bmr tq arm modded,behind bars dbl adj lc's,relocation brackets,adj pan,pro mod anti roll,strange dbl adj rear,single out front,race craft k member an a arms,front end limiters,an aftermarket springs..its a full blown race suspension
my last 4th gen had best of 1.44 60ft on what i would call a almost true stock suspension meaning factory shocks,factory springs,air bag in the pass side,stock lower a arms with reloction brackets on the 9",She was stock..only none stock was the bmr tq arm with cross mount and frame connectors,no front sway an had 26x10 slicks.
this car will have bmr tq arm modded,behind bars dbl adj lc's,relocation brackets,adj pan,pro mod anti roll,strange dbl adj rear,single out front,race craft k member an a arms,front end limiters,an aftermarket springs..its a full blown race suspension
07-29-2010, 05:44 PM
#59
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The times aren't an issue if he can dial in a suspension...the power is.
You can run all sorts of crazy times with low power - look at what Gizmo does with like 300rwhp. He is probably the most experienced person in this whole site at dialing in a car though. You could take his car apart and give it to 99% of the people here as a truck full of parts and they wouldn't run anywhere near what he does when they put it together.
The skepticism comes from making 470hp on stock heads that flow ~210cfm, which I don't see happening without boost.
Like I said though, I'm sure it will run like hell considering the rest of the combo.
You can run all sorts of crazy times with low power - look at what Gizmo does with like 300rwhp. He is probably the most experienced person in this whole site at dialing in a car though. You could take his car apart and give it to 99% of the people here as a truck full of parts and they wouldn't run anywhere near what he does when they put it together.
The skepticism comes from making 470hp on stock heads that flow ~210cfm, which I don't see happening without boost
.Like I said though, I'm sure it will run like hell considering the rest of the combo.
We see head cam cars with all accessories make close to 400 HP at the wheels , imagine that at the crank now take away some parasitic loss from the accessories.
Me personnally I could give a squat what a motor does on the dyno, i want to see where the rubber hits the road down the track , around town etc.
