View Poll Results: Would you like to see a Bolt on only heads up style class at the 2011 LTXshootout?
YES! i think thats a great idea!
70
89.74%
NO! waste of time no one will show!
2
2.56%
who cares?
3
3.85%
camaroracing12 stfu and stop posting garbage like this!
3
3.85%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll
New class proposal for 2011 ltxshootout
11-23-2010, 05:22 PM
#62
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11-23-2010, 07:15 PM
#64
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I plan on making the 2011 shootout for the third year in a row if everything goes as planned. I love this race and the drive there is just part of the adventure.
Tony & Kyle have always tried to do whats best for the event so I'm confident they will make the right decision on whether or not the event can support the new class.
Tony & Kyle have always tried to do whats best for the event so I'm confident they will make the right decision on whether or not the event can support the new class.
11-23-2010, 07:28 PM
#65
to hard to tech..rebuilding should def be out..an then how are you going to know..you going to pull rods,pistons an tear the motors completely down..
some one could do a rebuild and lighten up the stock pistons.run only 2 rings,hone for more performance,coat bearings,run light weight crank an rods,stock cam specs on a diff lobe profile.
pulling heads will stop people from using a shim gasket.
carbs and lt1 intakes allowed?
vacumm pumps?
you see why if super hard to go on with..**** i have a my mustang chassis..your motor with a carb in my **** and thats low 10s
some one could do a rebuild and lighten up the stock pistons.run only 2 rings,hone for more performance,coat bearings,run light weight crank an rods,stock cam specs on a diff lobe profile.
pulling heads will stop people from using a shim gasket.
carbs and lt1 intakes allowed?
vacumm pumps?
you see why if super hard to go on with..**** i have a my mustang chassis..your motor with a carb in my **** and thats low 10s
11-23-2010, 08:40 PM
#66
to hard to tech..rebuilding should def be out..an then how are you going to know..you going to pull rods,pistons an tear the motors completely down..
some one could do a rebuild and lighten up the stock pistons.run only 2 rings,hone for more performance,coat bearings,run light weight crank an rods,stock cam specs on a diff lobe profile.
pulling heads will stop people from using a shim gasket.
carbs and lt1 intakes allowed?
vacumm pumps?
you see why if super hard to go on with..**** i have a my mustang chassis..your motor with a carb in my **** and thats low 10s
some one could do a rebuild and lighten up the stock pistons.run only 2 rings,hone for more performance,coat bearings,run light weight crank an rods,stock cam specs on a diff lobe profile.
pulling heads will stop people from using a shim gasket.
carbs and lt1 intakes allowed?
vacumm pumps?
you see why if super hard to go on with..**** i have a my mustang chassis..your motor with a carb in my **** and thats low 10s
My feeling for something like this would be the car would have to have a tag and insurance to run. No conversions. Street tires, street equipment, etc. 3400 lb minimum.
11-23-2010, 08:55 PM
#67
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3400#s, on a GOOD DA day that means probably 12.0s.
At no weight minimum I would be expecting 11.9s being the BEST to see, the DA is going to be in the 1500+ range, that slows them down ALOT.
And not sure how you are going to really know what has been done, tear down is retarded for a 'bolt on' class for a gold opti, the parts to put it back together is more than the payout.
tricks will be done, ie thinner head gaskets and other 'things' that might have been done for local grudge races...
as much as I like the idea, what would be the tale tale sign that someone was doing something wrong?! I would guess a MPH in the 116-118 MIGHT happen in a STOCK MOTOR but that is going to be in VERY GOOD AIR which we probably will not see in BG in Sept. 114 might be the quikest a bolt on car will go at the event.
Be cool to have the bolt on cars come and support the 12 second class and if it grows enough start having a seperate class, no way around it....car counts must come up.
getting to the point too that there are not many STOCK LT1s laying around that you can just go get and beat the crap out of, they are going to need some TLC....
At no weight minimum I would be expecting 11.9s being the BEST to see, the DA is going to be in the 1500+ range, that slows them down ALOT.
And not sure how you are going to really know what has been done, tear down is retarded for a 'bolt on' class for a gold opti, the parts to put it back together is more than the payout.
tricks will be done, ie thinner head gaskets and other 'things' that might have been done for local grudge races...
as much as I like the idea, what would be the tale tale sign that someone was doing something wrong?! I would guess a MPH in the 116-118 MIGHT happen in a STOCK MOTOR but that is going to be in VERY GOOD AIR which we probably will not see in BG in Sept. 114 might be the quikest a bolt on car will go at the event.
Be cool to have the bolt on cars come and support the 12 second class and if it grows enough start having a seperate class, no way around it....car counts must come up.
getting to the point too that there are not many STOCK LT1s laying around that you can just go get and beat the crap out of, they are going to need some TLC....
11-23-2010, 09:47 PM
#68
Right now there are 34 people that think this is a great idea. If just eight would show it would be a hit.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
11-23-2010, 10:03 PM
#69
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Right now there are 34 people that think this is a great idea. If just eight would show it would be a hit.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
Eight would be nice but, I would hope for atleast 16 it will take a lot of work to come up with the rules for this class that will make everyone happy. edit well not everyone. lol
11-23-2010, 10:34 PM
#71
The time slip would tell the truth. Just the threat of tear down would stop most from fudging the top end. Pistons are hard to hide even from the top. Pulling a piston and rod would be extreme. I doubt that anyone would run fast enough to warrant it.
My feeling for something like this would be the car would have to have a tag and insurance to run. No conversions. Street tires, street equipment, etc. 3400 lb minimum.
My feeling for something like this would be the car would have to have a tag and insurance to run. No conversions. Street tires, street equipment, etc. 3400 lb minimum.
i mean come on guys who really is gonna go through all that trouble just to win a gold opti? we cant all be grown ups and be honest?? i think this class would be a hit and i could gurantee a 16 car field, if not a 32 car field. i would do everything in my power to promote the class as well run in it and help out in any way weighing cars etc etc. this class would give me an incentive to drive the 20 hours and race. i can bracket race 20 min from me at new england dragway, but i cant show off my personal achievements and race heads up anywhere else but at this event and this class
11-23-2010, 10:40 PM
#72
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I'm all for a 3300 to 3400# limit (plus driver) to keep guys who truely DD their cars interested. It would still be an advantage to the stripper cars because they will be balasting up to the minimum weight and will be able to place the balast to achieve the best balance/weight transfer/traction.
As far as one rule mentioned: rebuilds....I think they should be allowed with stock parts AND with true budget parts, such as the guy who uses cast or hyper pistons that are normal SBC replacements with the 5/64" rings. Normal rebuilder Felpro and such head gaskets.... Not any parts to really add power, but parts that may have been used by someone to just keep their car running.
Alot of these cars are getting old, so not allowing rebuilds would kinda suck. My own car is only at 85K miles so I'm not lobying for myself...just thinking of others.
On the conversion/swap rule - someone already mentioned using a 3rd gen chassis. I think that should be allowed as long as it meets the weight limit. Maybe any chassis that meets weight and uses stock or stock style suspension?? Or maybe have any odd combos voted on here before they are approved to run the class?
As far as one rule mentioned: rebuilds....I think they should be allowed with stock parts AND with true budget parts, such as the guy who uses cast or hyper pistons that are normal SBC replacements with the 5/64" rings. Normal rebuilder Felpro and such head gaskets.... Not any parts to really add power, but parts that may have been used by someone to just keep their car running.
Alot of these cars are getting old, so not allowing rebuilds would kinda suck. My own car is only at 85K miles so I'm not lobying for myself...just thinking of others.
On the conversion/swap rule - someone already mentioned using a 3rd gen chassis. I think that should be allowed as long as it meets the weight limit. Maybe any chassis that meets weight and uses stock or stock style suspension?? Or maybe have any odd combos voted on here before they are approved to run the class?
11-24-2010, 01:13 AM
#73
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I'm taking a dead stock '97 LT1, using a factory OBD2 pcm, and putting it in a 3rd gen f-body chassis that meets weight requirements, how is that any advantage over a 4th gen that came with the same powertrain?
Hell I'll even be using shorty headers simply because I already have them not to mention longtubes are expensive (for 3rd gens) and hard to package in a 3rd gen...
Alot of these cars are getting old, so not allowing rebuilds would kinda suck. My own car is only at 85K miles so I'm not lobying for myself...just thinking of others.
On the conversion/swap rule - someone already mentioned using a 3rd gen chassis. I think that should be allowed as long as it meets the weight limit. Maybe any chassis that meets weight and uses stock or stock style suspension?? Or maybe have any odd combos voted on here before they are approved to run the class?
On the conversion/swap rule - someone already mentioned using a 3rd gen chassis. I think that should be allowed as long as it meets the weight limit. Maybe any chassis that meets weight and uses stock or stock style suspension?? Or maybe have any odd combos voted on here before they are approved to run the class?
Last edited by Colin91Z; 11-24-2010 at 01:42 AM.
11-24-2010, 07:45 AM
#74
We had 7 classes with people runnin more than one class. Yes we only had 40 cars but most ran two classes so that makes the classes full. You can guess around 70 cars racing total (some count as two). It was nice having a small amount of time between rounds instead of hot lapping.
Right now there are 34 people that think this is a great idea. If just eight would show it would be a hit.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
This would only work if it were an "average guy" class. Let the ringers enter and the count will be low.
Unless someone was bad fast or doing some major sandbagging there would be no need for a tear down.
11-24-2010, 08:32 PM
#75
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Another suggestion that might help the case of adding this class is have everyone thats really interested in going pre-register this way the organizers will have a for sure car count. Worst case if someone can't make the event they would be out the entry fee.
11-25-2010, 09:57 AM
#76
Keep in mind, I am NOT a rule maker for the LTX Shootout, but these are my suggestions.
1. A great place to start with this would be to survey the guys that want to run this class to get an idea of what modifications they really want to allow. You really don't want a lot of guys showing up only to fail a tech inspection. You should cover transmission type, brakes, exhaust, wheels, tires, street equipment, etc. as well as the motor stuff.
2. I would not allow gutted cars. A full factory appearing interior should be mandatory. The rear seat should only be removed for a roll bar, etc.
3. Ballast should be regulated. The NHRA rule book is very clear about ballast. Each competitor should show-up for tech with the glove box and spare tire panels, etc. open. Any loose ballast would disqualify the entrant.
4. All runs should be weighed. The weight should be marked on the time slip and all time slips should be turned in to tech at the scales.
5. I would allow rebuilds that used stock parts only. That would include head gaskets. The winner and runner up should be prepared to pull the valve covers and intake minimum (upon request).
6. I think that a commitee of maybe three people should be formed to review all collected data before any competitor is asked to submit to any kind of internal engine inspection.
7. If you allow conversions, you have to decide how they will be policed. Will the other competitors be mad if a conversion wins? The third gens shouldn't pose a big problem, but some other combinations might hurt feelings.
As I have said before, I would gladly help out with a class like this. I just don't want to be in situation where people are giving me a telling-off at what should be a fun event.
This class has the potential to steal the show at the Shootout.
1. A great place to start with this would be to survey the guys that want to run this class to get an idea of what modifications they really want to allow. You really don't want a lot of guys showing up only to fail a tech inspection. You should cover transmission type, brakes, exhaust, wheels, tires, street equipment, etc. as well as the motor stuff.
2. I would not allow gutted cars. A full factory appearing interior should be mandatory. The rear seat should only be removed for a roll bar, etc.
3. Ballast should be regulated. The NHRA rule book is very clear about ballast. Each competitor should show-up for tech with the glove box and spare tire panels, etc. open. Any loose ballast would disqualify the entrant.
4. All runs should be weighed. The weight should be marked on the time slip and all time slips should be turned in to tech at the scales.
5. I would allow rebuilds that used stock parts only. That would include head gaskets. The winner and runner up should be prepared to pull the valve covers and intake minimum (upon request).
6. I think that a commitee of maybe three people should be formed to review all collected data before any competitor is asked to submit to any kind of internal engine inspection.
7. If you allow conversions, you have to decide how they will be policed. Will the other competitors be mad if a conversion wins? The third gens shouldn't pose a big problem, but some other combinations might hurt feelings.
As I have said before, I would gladly help out with a class like this. I just don't want to be in situation where people are giving me a telling-off at what should be a fun event.
This class has the potential to steal the show at the Shootout.
Last edited by GIZMO; 11-25-2010 at 10:06 AM.
11-25-2010, 10:38 AM
#77
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removal of intake is a lil to much imo. Its not like we"re racing for million dollars here. Its all about fun. Lets not think to much into this guys. We dont want to make this any more difficult than it all ready is.
11-25-2010, 11:12 AM
#78
i just think there should be a weight minimum then bolt ons only. GMHTP back in the day made exclusive rules to what bolt ons could be. i'd just go by that and add a weight minimum. i for one have my rear panels removed and race with my passenger seat removed (put it back in afterwards) but up front i have full interior.
i think we should make it as simple as possible and then just have fun with it. no reason to complicate things. bolt ons only with a certain # weight minimum. done.
i think we should make it as simple as possible and then just have fun with it. no reason to complicate things. bolt ons only with a certain # weight minimum. done.
11-25-2010, 11:53 AM
#79
Someone that drove their car 300+ miles to the shootout and their LTx car is their DD isn't going to want to go through a teardown in the pits at a racetrack far from home. I'm guessing that most of the bolt-on guys are going to be 18-22 years old, and are scraping by each week just to save up month to month to get that next mod. Is everyone going to be expected to bring a set of intake gaskets or head gaskets with them, let alone the tools (torque wrench) to put it back together? Have a small protest fee setup. If someone looks too fast get the other competitors together to put up some money. $100 to pull an intake or whatever amount you feel necessary.
11-25-2010, 01:06 PM
#80
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GMHTP back in the day made exclusive rules to what bolt ons could be. i'd just go by that and add a weight minimum. i think we should make it as simple as possible and then just have fun with it. no reason to complicate things. bolt ons only with a certain # weight minimum. done.
1. A great place to start with this would be to survey the guys that want to run this class to get an idea of what modifications they really want to allow. You really don't want a lot of guys showing up only to fail a tech inspection. You should cover transmission type, brakes, exhaust, wheels, tires, street equipment, etc. as well as the motor stuff.
2. I would not allow gutted cars. A full factory appearing interior should be mandatory. The rear seat should only be removed for a roll bar, etc.
3. Ballast should be regulated. The NHRA rule book is very clear about ballast. Each competitor should show-up for tech with the glove box and spare tire panels, etc. open. Any loose ballast would disqualify the entrant.
4. All runs should be weighed. The weight should be marked on the time slip and all time slips should be turned in to tech at the scales.
^^ALL OF THESE
5. I would allow rebuilds that used stock parts only. That would include head gaskets. The winner and runner up should be prepared to pull the valve covers and intake minimum (upon request).
I WOULN'T ALLOW CUSTOM L/W STUFF, BUT CHEAPER THAN STOCK REBUILD STUFF SHOULD BE ALLOWED OR ALOT OF CARS WITH STOCK STYLE REBUILDS WON'T PASS DUE TO CHEAP 5/64" RINGS, GENERIC PISTONS, ETC.
6. I think that a commitee of maybe three people should be formed to review all collected data before any competitor is asked to submit to any kind of internal engine inspection.
7. If you allow conversions, you have to decide how they will be policed. Will the other competitors be mad if a conversion wins? The third gens shouldn't pose a big problem, but some other combinations might hurt feelings.
As I have said before, I would gladly help out with a class like this. I just don't want to be in situation where people are giving me a telling-off at what should be a fun event.
This class has the potential to steal the show at the Shootout.
2. I would not allow gutted cars. A full factory appearing interior should be mandatory. The rear seat should only be removed for a roll bar, etc.
3. Ballast should be regulated. The NHRA rule book is very clear about ballast. Each competitor should show-up for tech with the glove box and spare tire panels, etc. open. Any loose ballast would disqualify the entrant.
4. All runs should be weighed. The weight should be marked on the time slip and all time slips should be turned in to tech at the scales.
^^ALL OF THESE
5. I would allow rebuilds that used stock parts only. That would include head gaskets. The winner and runner up should be prepared to pull the valve covers and intake minimum (upon request).
I WOULN'T ALLOW CUSTOM L/W STUFF, BUT CHEAPER THAN STOCK REBUILD STUFF SHOULD BE ALLOWED OR ALOT OF CARS WITH STOCK STYLE REBUILDS WON'T PASS DUE TO CHEAP 5/64" RINGS, GENERIC PISTONS, ETC.
6. I think that a commitee of maybe three people should be formed to review all collected data before any competitor is asked to submit to any kind of internal engine inspection.
7. If you allow conversions, you have to decide how they will be policed. Will the other competitors be mad if a conversion wins? The third gens shouldn't pose a big problem, but some other combinations might hurt feelings.
As I have said before, I would gladly help out with a class like this. I just don't want to be in situation where people are giving me a telling-off at what should be a fun event.
This class has the potential to steal the show at the Shootout.
Someone that drove their car 300+ miles to the shootout and their LTx car is their DD isn't going to want to go through a teardown in the pits at a racetrack far from home. I'm guessing that most of the bolt-on guys are going to be 18-22 years old, and are scraping by each week just to save up month to month to get that next mod. Is everyone going to be expected to bring a set of intake gaskets or head gaskets with them, let alone the tools (torque wrench) to put it back together? Have a small protest fee setup. If someone looks too fast get the other competitors together to put up some money. $100 to pull an intake or whatever amount you feel necessary.
I hope I didn't mess up by using caps, but I haven't did the multi-quote thing before so I wasn't sure if my replies would stand out from what was already said. My apologies if it looks like shouting. I'm a very laid back Georgia boy. I haven't seen anything on here worth shouting about yet (except maybe the HOT chicks with F-bodies thread.
I don't think anyone of us would want this class to turn into the monster that some others have. Does anyone remember the first couple years of NMCA's Super Street 10.5" class? Real cars and even 10 second cars were competitive. It quickly grew into a money bags, sponsered class where you had to run 7's in the quarter to even make the field. Sucks.