Is it just me...
12-05-2010, 12:04 PM
#21
I'm actually looking for a clean 3.8 firebird for my GF...but I'm very tempted to get an LT1 for the small price difference!
12-05-2010, 01:59 PM
#23
Out of the scene, it would take a bit to find timeslip threads.
http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthr...light=L67+swap
This guy has the L67 with turbo only and ran 12.5@116 on street tires.
He just cammed it and dyno'd 413 whp.
One thing you guys need to keep in mind that HP on these cars is misleading. Just like the LT1 does it will run good times on less power than you'd think. A 350whp L67 GP can run 11s very easily.
Also these cars don't need everything upgraded like LT1s.
You can run stage 3 heads with stock springs, rockers. You can run a cam with stock EVERYTHING. These turbo guys when I say they bolt on a turbo kit and run that power, they LITERALLY do it with very little hidden cost if any. Injectors and tune is practically it. And I'm not exaggerating.
They are getting more and more common in the w-body scene.
As far as the f-body, it's already been hit on. A TON of misconception and ignorance. (this thread for example) If the V6 guys had any clue about their potential...
I already told you to hit up a w-body site. GTPs will go mod for mod with an LT1. In 3000+ DA My gtp ran 13.4@103 hotlapped on street tires with a pulley/belt, modified stock rockers, headers, mail tune, and an intake. That's with 2.93 gears and the stock a4.
To equal/beat that time, my LT1 needed: long tubes, 3200 stall, mail tune, 3.42s, intake, drag radials. I beat it in better weather, cooled down and I still didn't hit that mph. 13.1@102.6
That's more hp with less in mods.
Yes, and the same stuff you need to upgrade on your LT1. Plus read cheapguys post about available options on the V6 you guys didn't know about.
Yes, and like I already said a GTP will go mod for mod with an LT1. You throw an intercooler on the V6 f-body and you can run serious power through it anyway. Need even more room for boost swap in the L67 bottom end and you have a block you can take to mid 8s AS IS. Again, the 3800 can go mod for mod with an LT1... and win.
Not arguing that. But most would argue boost is that replacement.And the V6 T5 can be built for the same price as the 4l60e and run similar power. They've done it numerous times.
http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthr...light=L67+swap
This guy has the L67 with turbo only and ran 12.5@116 on street tires.
He just cammed it and dyno'd 413 whp.
One thing you guys need to keep in mind that HP on these cars is misleading. Just like the LT1 does it will run good times on less power than you'd think. A 350whp L67 GP can run 11s very easily.
Also these cars don't need everything upgraded like LT1s.
You can run stage 3 heads with stock springs, rockers. You can run a cam with stock EVERYTHING. These turbo guys when I say they bolt on a turbo kit and run that power, they LITERALLY do it with very little hidden cost if any. Injectors and tune is practically it. And I'm not exaggerating.
They are getting more and more common in the w-body scene.
As far as the f-body, it's already been hit on. A TON of misconception and ignorance. (this thread for example) If the V6 guys had any clue about their potential...
To equal/beat that time, my LT1 needed: long tubes, 3200 stall, mail tune, 3.42s, intake, drag radials. I beat it in better weather, cooled down and I still didn't hit that mph. 13.1@102.6
That's more hp with less in mods.
Assuming the other claims are true (also interested in some sort of example) and beyond the $4k upgrade to the motor you still have a junk 2 piece driveshaft, rear drum brakes, a 110mph speedo, a 5 speed manual or a craptacular automatic, as well as a handful of suspension components that won't stand up to any kind of real power.
For the same price I can get an LT1 into 12s NA and still have more potential mods to install to go faster(instead of already being boosted and needing big bucks to go any quicker).
Hell, you could do a budget turbo build on an LT1 and smoke those mid-12s with ease for a similar price - a running LT car is ~3500 all day around here.
Hell, you could do a budget turbo build on an LT1 and smoke those mid-12s with ease for a similar price - a running LT car is ~3500 all day around here.
Not arguing that. But most would argue boost is that replacement.And the V6 T5 can be built for the same price as the 4l60e and run similar power. They've done it numerous times.
12-05-2010, 02:05 PM
#24
The fastest LT1 right now is running just as fast as the fastest Grand prix.
ZZP has more than one 8 second grand prix.
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1
Bone Stock shortblock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eip6fnK4y9A
Link: http://sites.commercecreators.com/fo...owse&pageid=53
91 octane turbo GPs are running 4-500whp. And they can get some good 60's too.
There are even twin charged GTPs out there. Supercharger AND Turbo. They are making serious power too.
I love posting this picture:
Look around in the turbo forum at their signatures. These motors would be awesome in an F-body. There's a 10 second turbo L67 fiero with barely anything done to it too.
ZZP has more than one 8 second grand prix.
http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.as...mode=1&smode=1
Bone Stock shortblock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eip6fnK4y9A
Link: http://sites.commercecreators.com/fo...owse&pageid=53
91 octane turbo GPs are running 4-500whp. And they can get some good 60's too.
There are even twin charged GTPs out there. Supercharger AND Turbo. They are making serious power too.
I love posting this picture:
Look around in the turbo forum at their signatures. These motors would be awesome in an F-body. There's a 10 second turbo L67 fiero with barely anything done to it too.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-05-2010 at 02:13 PM.
12-05-2010, 02:18 PM
#25
The GP record is held by a car with 100 less whp than Tony Shepherd's LT1.
Just some more info on how little whp these things need to run good times.
Just some more info on how little whp these things need to run good times.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-05-2010 at 02:36 PM.
12-05-2010, 02:41 PM
#26
Its a mindset that some people cant shake.
Plus, its a lot of work where someone like me can buy a Lt1 car and have fun and be reasonably fast than most regular cars.
Oh, nothing compares to a V8 just cam'ing away at a stoplight on Woodward at dusk.
Plus, its a lot of work where someone like me can buy a Lt1 car and have fun and be reasonably fast than most regular cars.
Oh, nothing compares to a V8 just cam'ing away at a stoplight on Woodward at dusk.
12-05-2010, 02:46 PM
#27
I did have a cammed L67 and it sounded awesome at a stop and alright at wot. A turbo one will have a loud enough turbo that who cares about the sound at wot.
12-05-2010, 10:01 PM
#28
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
I already told you to hit up a w-body site. GTPs will go mod for mod with an LT1. In 3000+ DA My gtp ran 13.4@103 hotlapped on street tires with a pulley/belt, modified stock rockers, headers, mail tune, and an intake. That's with 2.93 gears and the stock a4.
To equal/beat that time, my LT1 needed: long tubes, 3200 stall, mail tune, 3.42s, intake, drag radials. I beat it in better weather, cooled down and I still didn't hit that mph. 13.1@102.6
That's more hp with less in mods.
To equal/beat that time, my LT1 needed: long tubes, 3200 stall, mail tune, 3.42s, intake, drag radials. I beat it in better weather, cooled down and I still didn't hit that mph. 13.1@102.6
That's more hp with less in mods.
You make these claims about how super and what a bargain the GTP is to mod yet I still don't see anything to back up your claims as to how they do on the track. I could care less what they dyno. I want to see some successful built boosted 3800 motors you reference. Just a few links to timeslips and mods. There should be a plethora if they run as well as you claim? Are you seriously going to use a single digit GTP as how much of a bargain it is to mod one of those things?
If they are that fantastic then why did you get rid of yours?
12-05-2010, 10:41 PM
#31
That is just ratard speak. It should not take you that amount of mods for a LT1 to turn mid 13's. Ever. You should feel embarrassed.
You make these claims about how super and what a bargain the GTP is to mod yet I still don't see anything to back up your claims as to how they do on the track. I could care less what they dyno. I want to see some successful built boosted 3800 motors you reference. Just a few links to timeslips and mods. There should be a plethora if they run as well as you claim? Are you seriously going to use a single digit GTP as how much of a bargain it is to mod one of those things?
If they are that fantastic then why did you get rid of yours?
You make these claims about how super and what a bargain the GTP is to mod yet I still don't see anything to back up your claims as to how they do on the track. I could care less what they dyno. I want to see some successful built boosted 3800 motors you reference. Just a few links to timeslips and mods. There should be a plethora if they run as well as you claim? Are you seriously going to use a single digit GTP as how much of a bargain it is to mod one of those things?
If they are that fantastic then why did you get rid of yours?
Check out their mod lists. They aren't very involved.
Well, if you lived where I lived you'd understand why my car runs low times. Considering it was 78 degrees here today with the altitude we're at you never see anything better than 1000' DA. You guys with your 0-negative das can run considerably better.
I got rid of my GTP because I wanted a RWD with ttops and an LT1. I also got rid of it before the turbos came out. It was all custom then and I didn't have the money for custom work and didn't think they'd take to the turbo like they do. I also didn't realize how much I liked the motor and how little I'd like working on this car... and on top of that, there's SO many things to measure and check and upgrade for a simple change in the GTP.
My GTP cam swap literally involved gaskets, fluids, and a timing chain tensioner. No need to upgrade ANYTHING. The stock valvetrain is perfectly fine unless you want to rev higher, then springs are the only necessity there. Heads flow very well stock. And the bottom end doesn't have to be touched at all... pretty much ever.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-05-2010 at 10:50 PM.
12-06-2010, 12:09 AM
#32
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
That's cool and all those things can be made to run fast, but after looking at the mods lists of the more faster ones I won't believe for a second they are cheaper and easier to maintain than any other V8 anything that runs the same times.
12-06-2010, 09:12 AM
#35
This is probably the wrong section but oh well. Is it just me or does anyone else think GM should've put the M90 on the RS V6 Camaro's? They already had the supercharger on Grand Prix GTP's since 1997. I think 240 hp would make a really fun car, plus good MPG? I always thought about this.. Only for the RS models though not just a straight up v6. With maybe a T-56 and a lsd not an open diff.
Oh, and newsflash: The V6s got worse mpg than the V8s. Definitely LS1s get better gas mileage, and I would bet LT1s are better too, maybe the same at worst. A blower only makes it worse.
That last bit had me cracking up.
12-06-2010, 01:14 PM
#36
Why would they make a performance version of a car that already has a performance version? It's called the Z28(SS). Add a supercharger, T56 and a LSD like you said and that would add lots of cost to the price of the car...meaning it would cost as much or more than a Z28(SS) would but it would be slower. So it's pointless. Even just adding a blower makes it needlessly more expensive.
Oh, and newsflash: The V6s got worse mpg than the V8s. Definitely LS1s get better gas mileage, and I would bet LT1s are better too, maybe the same at worst. A blower only makes it worse.
That last bit had me cracking up.
Oh, and newsflash: The V6s got worse mpg than the V8s. Definitely LS1s get better gas mileage, and I would bet LT1s are better too, maybe the same at worst. A blower only makes it worse.
That last bit had me cracking up.
Also, you really think a4 Lt1s get good gas mileage when modded?! Mine is getting 13-14 mpg. A turbo 3800 will get the same mileage as an NA one if you want it to. Don't be so NAIVE. My auto GTP with 285whp got 23mpg, my LT1 when it was 285whp was getting 14. That's a huge difference and that's in an auto 3800 with the same weight. The a4 LT1s don't get the mpg they claim, the m6s do, but the m5 v6s got 27 or 28 mpg.
Last edited by LSWHO; 12-06-2010 at 01:34 PM.
12-06-2010, 01:40 PM
#37
An L67 will run mod for mod with your LT1 or should I say $ per $. The same mods don't react the same in both cars, but different mods for the same price will net just as much if not more power for the same price. Simple fact that a GTP can be turbo'd for the price of heads/cam for LT1s and it'll be FASTER. My GTP ran 13.9 for $300. In az, that's pretty awesome... it also would have ran 12s with a tune, springs, and DRs for less than it cost my LT1 to get to the 12s.
PS: $300 is nice, but my Lt1 ran that same 13.9 with $0...and it didn't need a $3,000 turbo kit to run 12's.
Anything you do to the 3800 can be done to the LT1 and net more power, more tq, and better ETs. Not sure how you can think otherwise.
Also, you really think a4 Lt1s get good gas mileage when modded?! Mine is getting 13-14 mpg. A turbo 3800 will get the same mileage as an NA one if you want it to. Don't be so NAIVE. My auto GTP with 285whp got 23mpg, my LT1 when it was 285whp was getting 14. That's a huge difference and that's in an auto 3800 with the same weight. The a4 LT1s don't get the mpg they claim, the m6s do, but the m5 v6s got 27 or 28 mpg.
4.56s, 5k stall, 42# injectors, no tune...and a hotcam kit??? 
.
12-06-2010, 01:49 PM
#38
The turbo kit you linked was $3,000. That is a LOT more then a H/C setup. In fact, give me a bone stock LT1 and you a bone stock 3800 and 3K each and I can promise you my car will be considerably faster, no matter what you do with the money.
PS: $300 is nice, but my Lt1 ran that same 13.9 with $0...and it didn't need a $3,000 turbo kit to run 12's.
Anything you do to the 3800 can be done to the LT1 and net more power, more tq, and better ETs. Not sure how you can think otherwise.
PS: $300 is nice, but my Lt1 ran that same 13.9 with $0...and it didn't need a $3,000 turbo kit to run 12's.
Anything you do to the 3800 can be done to the LT1 and net more power, more tq, and better ETs. Not sure how you can think otherwise.
The turbo kit on a GTP nets 400+ whp and low 11s.
Show me one single person EVER to put $3000 on their car lt1 FROM BONE STOCK and gets 400whp.
SHOW A SINGLE ONE. You can't.
$3000 won't even get you the parts needed to install heads/cam let alone a fully bolt in kit. There's a ton of parts missing from your heads cam install, like springs, rockers, headers, tune, fueling, gaskets, intake blah blah blah.
The L67 with $3k turbo kit and some injectors will net more power with no hidden cost like the lt1 heads/cam.
And WTF is with you people comparing times across the damn country?! Stop and think about this:
It was 78 degrees outside YESTERDAY. The track is at 1200' WTF kind of DA do you think we run at here!? With correction that 13.9 was mid 13s. Sounds about right for an A4 LT1 to run with intake/cutout... strange, those will cost about $300... weird.
Use your brain.
12-06-2010, 01:51 PM
#39
12-06-2010, 02:05 PM
#40
What?
I should have clarified, I was talking about stock for stock mpg, not that it really matters. My mom's Regal GS gets like 21mpg tops and she drives slower than anyone I've ever met, always keeps the tires aired up, etc. That thing is terrible on gas and there is no way with more boost you got better mpg unless these things run insanely pig rich stock, and you probably get your foot in it too. She hasn't seen over 3500 rpms in the past 20 years I bet
Also, you really think a4 Lt1s get good gas mileage when modded?! Mine is getting 13-14 mpg. A turbo 3800 will get the same mileage as an NA one if you want it to. Don't be so NAIVE. My auto GTP with 285whp got 23mpg, my LT1 when it was 285whp was getting 14. That's a huge difference and that's in an auto 3800 with the same weight. The a4 LT1s don't get the mpg they claim, the m6s do, but the m5 v6s got 27 or 28 mpg.