Local LT1 Stock Eliminator Car
06-06-2011, 05:44 PM
#21
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You guys should talk to someone running a stock eliminator car. The time invested in to "bending" the rules is amazing. Ramp rates so aggressive they purposely float the valves to increase lift. "solidifying" lol hydraulic lifters to have .020"-.030" max preload before bottoming out (basically) so they can control th valve float without damage.
Lightweight internals in the tranny to quicken shifts (more than any separator plate and valve body could do) modifying the bushings in the a arms to help free up their range of motion more.
Man, the list goes on and on and on... If you actually pay attention to the details, Stock eliminator is more interesting than any stock suspension drag radial, or outlaw 8.5 stuff that goes on these days, IMO. mid 5's in a high-dollar outlaw 8.5 car is cool, but mid 6's in a basically "cam only" lt1 kicks the dick off of it.
Lightweight internals in the tranny to quicken shifts (more than any separator plate and valve body could do) modifying the bushings in the a arms to help free up their range of motion more.
Man, the list goes on and on and on... If you actually pay attention to the details, Stock eliminator is more interesting than any stock suspension drag radial, or outlaw 8.5 stuff that goes on these days, IMO. mid 5's in a high-dollar outlaw 8.5 car is cool, but mid 6's in a basically "cam only" lt1 kicks the dick off of it.
06-06-2011, 07:49 PM
#22
LOL what happens when you "loft" a valve with hydraulic lifters?
Even if we're talking a solid lifter, you'd have to make compromises on the closing ramp to avoid bounce off the seat, which would hurt more than you'd gain with "controlled" loft or float or whatever you want to call it.
Even if we're talking a solid lifter, you'd have to make compromises on the closing ramp to avoid bounce off the seat, which would hurt more than you'd gain with "controlled" loft or float or whatever you want to call it.
Last edited by Wicked94Z; 06-06-2011 at 10:12 PM. Reason: spelling
06-06-2011, 08:18 PM
#23
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LOL what happens when you "loft" a valve with hydraulic lifter?
Even if we're talking a solid lifter, you'd have to make compromises on the closing ramp to avoid bounce off the seat, which would hurt more than you'd gain with "controlled" loft or float or whatever you want to call it.
Even if we're talking a solid lifter, you'd have to make compromises on the closing ramp to avoid bounce off the seat, which would hurt more than you'd gain with "controlled" loft or float or whatever you want to call it.
06-06-2011, 10:29 PM
#25
We ran 5hp briggs lawnmower engines that turned 3600rpm stock up to 7k with stock springs lofting the valves all day long. I don't see how the best engine builders in the country wouldn't be able to achieve the same feat.
06-07-2011, 12:01 AM
#28
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Oh, and the "hydraulic" lifters are taken apart and have spacers added under the cup, so that the total amount of cup movement is roughly .030". Think of it as a hydraulically lashed solid lifter cam. All the street manners of a hydraulic setup (well, as much as a 26x/27x@.050", ~100~LSA CAM can be) yet the lifter "pump up" is about the same as the lash clearance for a solid lifter cam.
This can be argued all day long, there's only one way to find out for sure, and that's to put an indicator on the retainer, spin the motor to 7800rpm, and see if there's more than .460" lift bing lobbed at the retainer.
These guys aren't getting cam only lt1's in the mid 6's by just throwing random stuff together.
06-07-2011, 08:06 AM
#30
First off do any know what exact rules they are going by? This will tell you what can be and cannot be done, With out this info everyone is assuming. I knew some guys that raced in the stock eliminator class but this was the ole muscle cars, around 1967 -72 models. Their rules that is that the car had to be stock "appearing" and basically "Stock sounding" so yes they ran long duration cams with very wide LSA's to try and smooth the idle out. they had to run stock exhaust manifolds which they had Extrude Hone, stock pistons well not so stock as long as the compression stayed the same ect. These cars ran in the 13's-14's stock from the showroom and in this class were running 10's..
06-07-2011, 08:26 AM
#32
This is the one comment that always comes out sooner or later when Stock is mentioned on this forum. I have been torn down so many times that it isn't funny. They check everything and I have never been found illegal.
For the guys that love to talk about "acid porting", you do know that they pour the runners, right? If you think that trick cylinder heads are the key to going fast in a Stocker, you are way off base. Lot's of things you can do without messing with the heads.
The last time this happened I got together with a bunch of high school kids and we built a "stock internals" car. Most of you guys know how that turned out!
For the guys that love to talk about "acid porting", you do know that they pour the runners, right? If you think that trick cylinder heads are the key to going fast in a Stocker, you are way off base. Lot's of things you can do without messing with the heads.
The last time this happened I got together with a bunch of high school kids and we built a "stock internals" car. Most of you guys know how that turned out!
06-07-2011, 08:26 AM
#33
^ I'm listening to daren in this case i think hes got a bit more experience than anybody in here when it comes to this topic 
regardless.........I absolutly LOVE watching these cars run........the way these cars come out of the hole is awesome........great racing too!!!
regardless.........I absolutly LOVE watching these cars run........the way these cars come out of the hole is awesome........great racing too!!!
06-07-2011, 08:34 AM
#35
yea i know a guy up here with one we raced just for giggles one day........he blew my doors off out of the hole and around the 1/8th mile i came rolling by him like his car shut off lol..........they are awesome to watch launch but ur right they are turds on the high end......still cool as hell though!!!!
06-07-2011, 09:28 AM
#37
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GIZMO--where can I find a list of the class records? I did a google search and found a list from 2004, lol. What did "The Gump" run and what class was it in? I figure that Paul Cambria's car is around a 10.60 based on what it ran Sunday. I'm assuming that is pretty competitive.
06-07-2011, 01:54 PM
#38
GIZMO--where can I find a list of the class records? I did a google search and found a list from 2004, lol. What did "The Gump" run and what class was it in? I figure that Paul Cambria's car is around a 10.60 based on what it ran Sunday. I'm assuming that is pretty competitive.
I am sure that Paul was running in "bracket mode". I am also pretty sure that he can go quite a bit faster. That is the thing about Stock Eliminator, you never truly know what any given car can run unless you go heads-up. That's why I loved running Top Stock, which is heads-up all the time.
A good place for information. http://classracer.com/racerinfo.html
Last edited by GIZMO; 06-07-2011 at 02:38 PM.
06-07-2011, 04:58 PM
#40
That's a tough call. Both the LS1 and LT1 have had so much HP added by the NHRA that they are pretty even right now. The only way to really find out is if there was a heads-up run with ego involved. I think that most guys are waiting to see what happens with the Cobra Jets and Drag Paks.