deerslayinrednek

iTrader: (8)

very nice!

Advanced Induction

iTrader: (2)

Much of the tooling I have had to design and have custom made. Unfortunately, due to the geometry and condition when they wear out, they really cannot be refurbished. They can only be downsized or scrapped. It is rather expensive to machine a high end product vs. the average CNC'd head/product.

http://www.advancedinduction.com/LTX...ccCompHead.php

Still many results & I believe I have some newer photos to add to the revised site. Lots of info up for the time being.

All cast products have some amount of core shift or dimensional variance from the casting process. The key is going through the expenditure to collect data and refine programs such that we ensure all areas of the port that have anything to do with performance are 100% machined or 'cleaned up' when ported. As the head was not designed for porting initially, there are often small patches of as cast port left in areas we do not want to enlarge (corners typically). However, even that minute amount of non cleanup does not introduce inconsistency insofar as performance potential or longevity is concerned since, as mentioned, anything that matters has 100% cleanup. There is so much a difference in our high end CNC work, tooling management, etc. that our CNC'd OEM GM head is typically more consistent than the aftermarket casting based CNC heads where the casting was actually designed to be CNC'd.

Working on it. I have to figure out the best vantage point that protects the camera, and film enough that there are a few clear shots w/o someone talking etc. in the background.

Glad you like the video! On valve seat machining, Serdi, Sunnen, etc. are all long since outdated. You can do a decent job on them, but that level of work is never applied to street/cheap heads. Additionally, even a dedicated guy who is willing to spend 6-8hrs machining valve seats on a Serdi still simply cannot match what our Newen Contour is capable of. In F1, cup, etc. where $ isn't an issue you will find everyone competitive running equipment from Newen, DMG, etc. (unless they're given freebies - for instance Hendrick's wouldn't likely run Haas machines if they weren't gratis). Much of our success is due to our execution, which is largely a product of the quality of our machinery. Even the most skilled grinder cannot physically compete with even entry level machines. In racing everyone does all they can to eliminate variables like work done by hand.

I used to put 35-40hrs of physical labor into our hand ported GM LT1's. About 4x the labor of "competing" hand ported LT heads. Once we realized we were competing against mediocre to average at best work, it was obviously time to just start cutting the heads instead of spending hours toiling away with a grinder. The quality was always superior, but even our old hand work isn't nearly as good as what we put out now.

Usually 3-5hr depending on the head/program for most LT/LS work. Some heads have 12-18hr in each head, and some are cut in less - it varies significantly. That is per head. Most CNC'd heads are cut on low-end Haas, Fadal, Centroid, etc. type setups, and then they're gone through quicker than we run them. Unfortunately, between pushing the tooling to the limit, and having low-average range machinery it usually shows in the work. High end machinery, custom tooling, and being willing to let it run extra hours for roughing passes etc. ensures our street work is nicer than most of the work high end race teams produce. It also enables us to offer anything from budget CNC work to the nicest work possible w/ today's technology for private label, engine builders, other head porters, etc.

There is much more time & $ spent creating a good master head, reverse engineering, programming, revising, etc. than is invested in doing a good hand ported head. Much less the low end hand work typically sold to the public. In the end the design & programming time, plus continued revisions/refining programming etc. are worth it. With entry level work, especially hand work, you simply never know what you are receiving. At the opposite end of the spectrum, the investment we have made allows us to guarantee that we provide the exact same performance potential to the customer as the results that brought them to us in the first place.

IIRC, the GM LT programs are between 900,000 and 1,050,000 lines of code.

Glad you guys like it. Feel free to ask questions - there is so much misinformation online about CNC head porting that I certainly don't mind dispelling the cylinder head microwave myths.

-Phil

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Very nice video. I would like to see more.

Do you guys port the LT1 manifold or is the gains/cost not worth it?

fastcars95

iTrader: (9)

How well can you make a gm lt1 head flow. Will they flow like the top $ aftermarket heads.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Obviously not - or else the wouldn't offer anything but ported stock castings. For a very small percentage of people there are the top tier aftermarket heads which will outperform any GM casting in the right combo..but that is where their CNC'd Trickflows come into play.

Again, for most people ported stockers are plenty, but don't expect them to go toe-to-toe with aftermarket castings in all situations.

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

Their LS stuff has no problem going head to head with aftermarket castings, atleast in stock cube builds.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...-gm-5-3-a.html

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Cool Story Bro...too bad we're in the LT1 section .

Didn't read the thread (since I admittedly couldn't give 2 ***** about LSx results), but off the top of my head I'm guessing its comparing a ported CNC'd casting against an as-cast aftermarket head...since we're talking potential, port the aftermarket head as well and then see the comparison.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

Lol

His post was in reference to the question about aftermarket vs. stock ported and that thread is a perfect answer to that question regardless of LT v. LS.

And those PI heads are CNC ported...just not very well. It is as Apples to Apples as you can get.

"LXR-P1 Performance Induction CNC Ported 215 Heads: $2895
New A-356 Alloy Castings with 11* Valve Angle
Fully CNC Ports and Combustion Chambers
2.040” Stainless Intake Valves
1.570” Stainless Exhaust Valves (3.900 bore)
1.600” Stainless Exhaust Valves (4.000 bore)
Includes Custom Rocker Arm Stands
Uses LS3/L92 OEM or Aftermarket Shaft Rocker Arms
3.900 Bore 62cc or 68cc Chamber
4.000 Bore 66cc or 70cc Chamber
Many Valvetrain and Spring Options Available"

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

So basically instead of educating yourself you would rather base your stance on ignorance with a side of smartass. I am shocked.

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

I forgot to mention they are 11 degree heads vs 15 degree heads too

Puck

iTrader: (17)

OP has an LT1 and is posting in the LT1 section. The question was clearly about his LT1 heads, so how is LS drivel relevant to anything???

Please tell me how LS results have anything whatsoever to do with that?

ZFreie

I agree, the LS head comparison is kinda useless, we all know the superiority of the heads on the ls1 vs lt1.

The only thing is does point to is AIs quality. If their cnc'ed stockers are as good, if not better, then other companys after market heads, that says a lot. As time goes on it seems like I might end up being an AI nut swinger

fastcars95

iTrader: (9)

The video is amazing. I did not realize how much work went into a cnc'd head.
Can a well worked head flow 300 cfm.

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

I guess it's irrelevant that their ported 15 degree gm castings out performed a set of 11 degree ported aftermarket castings. That shows that the head porter is often the limiting factor in the potential of a head, not the head casting itself.

fastcars95

iTrader: (9)

That would be the best sleeper motor. Cnc'd heads and a stroker 396.

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Yes, what was done with a casting which started out leaps and bounds more advanced is completely and totally irrelevant to what is done to a casting that is almost 20 years old.

The LT1 casting has inherent flaws in its geometry that no amount of porting - short of severe welding/epoxy work - can correct. To compare what a factory LS casting can do vs an aftermarket one means nothing in a conversation about LT1 castings.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Advanced Induction

iTrader: (2)

Every time I see that guy, I am reminded of Ellwein. After a successful weekend dyno racing & playing with Aleks' red car down here we all went out and enjoyed a fair quantity of dos equis. Ron was kind enough to abstain & drive, karl was mellow, and the rest of us happily guzzled away after a good day at the track.

What I was getting at, is that it cannot be understated just how wide the spectrum of quality & consistency insofar as head work is concerned actually is. That is especially the case when dealing with the public, since so many purchasers have no way to gauge what they've been given. We have a steady parade of mangled heads brought through. This must be what being a vet is like - having to explain so often that euthanizing is often a better option than surgery.

Thanks; we'll try and make some other vids as time allows. The OEM manifold is worth porting if you are looking to get out of the low 4XXrwhp range. We've made 450-520rwhp NA SAE numerous times using the OEM manifold with our full porting.

The GM LT1 work we sell will support over 600hp, which is about 100-130hp more than most guys end up building engines for. The engine doesn't run on flow #'s, and they are not indicative of potential performance.

A great many of our customers running our TFS casting based LT heads were initially told to go w/ the 200cc CNC'd GM LT work. It is just really hard to beat the value, and performance, in the ~5XXhp range most guys build engines for. The aftermarket castings offer very little over the GM casting, and have drawbacks (weight, bronze guides, heavier components, etc.). Certainly if the goal is 600-800hp NA, we'll go to an aftermarket casting based head, but that is an extremely rare LT build (though often claimed).

The point is that this is yet another example of an aftermarket casting on a small block chevy (touted as the best cathedral head made), claiming 20-30cfm higher flow #'s, and it ends up trounced throughout the entire powerband with gains to the tune of 25lb-ft and 17hp. That is an enormous area gain, and continued evidence that our railing against the flow bench racing the naive rely on is more fact than marketing.

Quite a bit of hours, but again there is a wide spectrum of quality/consistency/hours invested in CNC'd heads. I have done LT's that the flowbench said were 300-315, but we don't pursue that as an offering because it doesn't end up gaining performance in real life. Claimed flow is not an accurate indicator of performance potential - it is a side effect used for marketing.

Could you articulate precisely what you have been told is wrong with the GM LT casting geometry that requires correction, and what the benefit is of doing so?

SoxXpupPeT

iTrader: (34)

I really Really want!!!