ZGOBYBY

iTrader: (14)

Totally true. Sounds like the setup I am going with, but I will be running some super low compression. Get compression and internals information. What pistons were used, rods, crank.

boostedlt1

iTrader: (2)

Yeah a cold air intake and exhaust wouldn't classify as beat up to me. But a car with a 12 bolt and is caged was most likely raced and driven hard.. People that don't race their cars usually don't put cages and 12 bolts in. but yeah the parts are worth it.

Definitely don't buy it unless you get info on the engine.

AmirGTR

Well he says they're forged...that's all I could get from him.

Makes sense. Thanks for the advice, I'll go take a look and post what I can gather and see what you guys think.

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

I would look for more info on the "forged", and especially more info on the CR. Who did the tune? Has it been tuned? The tuner should have info on the car.

If it has not been tuned, and he is selling it for that amount, my guess is first off he is hard up for money, because even if it is a big problem waiting to happen, if the parts you say are in the car, you could part it out and at least break even.

That being said, it sounds more like it is a problem waiting to happen. If you've got an extra $10,000 lying around for what I am guessing it may need internally with a proper setup and tune, then I say go for it. If you are expecting to spend $5500 and have it run like a champ, throw down 450 RWHP and run low 11's without doing much or anything to it, my years of experiencing things like this are telling me to tell you, it's probably just not going to happen.

Guys who do this kind of thing know what kind of parts they are putting in their car. They hold on to reciepts, and have it done right. OR they lie about the setup to try and pawn it off on some eager beaver looking for what seems like a good deal. Or worse yet, they just don't have any idea what they were doing when they built the car, found out the hard way when something went wrong, or they found they couldn't afford to make it right, and are now trying to sell off their problem.

I would trust documentation like reciepts from engine shops, and performace shops. I would not trust "uh, its forged, but I don't know with what".

Either way, good luck.

AmirGTR

Unfortunately that may be the case. I asked him about the tune and he said the owner before him turboed the car and he 'guesses' it was tuned.

If I had 10 grand laying around I'd build up my own Z28 lol.

I guess my best bet is to ask him about the receipts and find a mechanic who can look at it.

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

You would need a lot more than $10,000 to build up your own FI LT1. To do it cheeply would run $16,000+. To do it right with bulletproof parts like Lunati and Diamond you would easily be looking at $20,000+.

That $10,000 was assuming you at least had what you can obviously see under the hood like the Turbo, the intercooler, the bigger injectors ect. A mechanic is going to see the same if he looks under the hood. The only way to know what is all inside the motor would be to take everything apart, or go on good faith of reciepts from his engine builder or performance shop.

I can't stress it enough though, if the guy is saying "I think it had this and that done or put into it" without actual reciepts or proof, you are looking at an expensive project my friend. And one that WILL cost you a lot of money to get where you want it. That being said, if it does end up that way, and you learn that the hard way, after time of taking the parts off that you know are in the car like the rear, the turbo, ect. you should be able to make your $5500 back. But then what is the point in buying it in the first place?

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Well said. Don't do it. Never do business with friends or family.

AmirGTR

16 grand? Good god. If I wanted a 700whp car yeah, that makes sense, but a good running HCI LT1 should be fine with a small turbo running at 7psi, wouldn't it? And that definitely wouldn't cost anywhere near that amount.

I'm actually trying to decide between this car and an LS1 Formula/TA. The problem is all the LS1 birds in my price range are automatic and 98 which isn't the best year for LS1s if it's going to stay stock for a while.

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

Get an ls1 formula. The autos are better drag cars.

CamaroZGuy

iTrader: (1)

CALL911 is real close with the $$$$$ for a FI build, i went in to my build thinking the same thing "10k can get it done". thats good for the motor, but then comes all the extras to make it reliable....built trans, rear end, fuel system, Mis parts (i have a $4,000 parts list of "Mis" parts). by the end my "10K build" will be close to a 20K build. And im only shooting for 600rwhp.

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

There is a distinct difference between putting a turbo or a blower on a non-forged internal high CR engine that was not meant for boost, and building a motor so it is meant for boost.

Can you put a blower or a turbo on a non-forged engine with a high CR for cheep? Sure. It will still cost you after the blower/turbo, intercooler, ignition, fuel system, meth injection, tune a solid $6,000 or so. And many people do it at 7 psi. But then again, you're still dropping $6k and at 7#'s of boost, you really won't be making very much power. This is besides the most important fact that you are running boost on an engine that was not meant to. Even if you do everything you can externally like meth injection, FMIC to keep the IAT's down, and have a safe tune, you are still rolling the dice on when the motor will go *BOOM*. You might make it to 15,000 miles, but then again, you might not make it to your next oil change. Simply put, you can't safely run boost on an engine that is not setup for it internally.

Boosting an LT1 OR an LS1 is not cheap. Thats why you don't see boosted F-bodies around every corner. There is a good thread on this in the FI section (https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...induction.html).

To build an engine to hold boost you need AT MINIMUM forged pistons with a lower than stock CR, aftermarket rods. If you want to take advantage at all of the FI application, you will need heads, cam and intake, along with springs, rocker arms, stronger timing chain, crank, different exhaust (you will need custom or turbo kit hot parts if you go turbo), on top of all the above mentioned outside the motor. An aftermarket rear if you want to hold it together, an aftermarket tranny, or clutch if you are a 6-speed, and if you want to actually use any of that power, you're looking at suspension as well as tires.

This is why it costs so much. Do it right, and you can safely run boost, knowing when you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in that your engine was built for it, and is reliable just as it was when it was N/A. Do it cheep, and every time you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in it is more than the engine was meant to handle, and every time you do it, you are rolling the dice on when it might go "pop".

boostedlt1

iTrader: (2)

for $20k you better have everything made from gold... holy ****...

CamaroZGuy

iTrader: (1)

20k is easy to hit on a FI build;
shortblock-4k
heads-2k (bare castings)
rear end-2.5k
tran's build-2k
fuel system-1k+
FI setup-2.5k-5k+

thats just major components, add in stuff like; timing chain, oil pan/pump/pickup, header/exhaust, gauges, stall, trans cooler, gaskets, bolt kits. it adds up real quick!

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

2k for bare casting heads?! Jesus. What's wrong with stock heads? Fi in no way necessitates aftermarket heads. IN NO WAY. Hp goals determine purchases. Not fi.

CamaroZGuy

iTrader: (1)

sorry, i meant to put factory un-ported

but still any GOOD work done to stock casting heads will cost close to 2k

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

Yes, but they aren't needed for forced induction.

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

Most guys who are spending the money on building a motor to handle the boost already are spending in excess of thousands on the motor just to handle the boost. At that point, it becomes pretty stupid to spend that kind of coin and have a low RWHP boosted car by leaving stock un-ported heads, and stock un-ported intake. Most people spending money on doing a strong FI build, will spend the extra money in taking advantage of the motor that can safely handle boost by putting in power making parts like heads. This is where the $20k number comes from.

Theoretically you could just build a forged internal LT1 block with cheap eagle rods, crank, and forged low CR pistons, and still run the stock cam, heads, intake ect. You will still be out thousands (especially if you are not doing all the engine work yourself), but then you really won't be any faster than a good heads cam and intake LT1 (which you could have had for a fraction of the price).

LSWHO

iTrader: (1)

So you are saying you need ported heads on a build to top 400-450rwhp?

Boostedlt1 dynod 400rwhp with stock heads on low boost and a godawful tune.

Id say stock heads can easily net you 500rwhp. Beyond that ported heads.

CALL911

iTrader: (17)

Are you saying Boostedlt1 dynod 400 RWHP with stock heads, stock cam, and stock un-ported intake?

I would agree that stock heads can throw down 500 RWHP, but not without other supporting modifications to the intake, or without an aftermarket cam.

My statement was stated mearly to say that going boosted is expensive, even if you don't change the heads.

FAD2BLK93

I would say forget the boost... Not very stable with that high of a compression ratio. I decided to go LE2 over boosted, to many unknowns.