Turbo LT1 whp estimate
08-24-2011, 08:14 PM
#41
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i have 7500 motor
3500 in turbo stuff
around 2k for suspension
1850 in rear end
brakes are in a box outside still but the whole kit front and rear was 1250 with all new parts.
I also replaced everything that was rubber to poly. I have not even bought coil overs yet and those should be around 1000 or more. I have be building my car up for a while though i did not buy everything all at once or new for that matter. Thats not even including the fuel system upgrades dyno tunes and re tunes. **** breaking out of nowhere and no one wanting to help or make it right. Fi is not cheap at all, plus mot people are better off with heads and cam. Give someone to much power with little skill wont end to well.
3500 in turbo stuff
around 2k for suspension
1850 in rear end
brakes are in a box outside still but the whole kit front and rear was 1250 with all new parts.
I also replaced everything that was rubber to poly. I have not even bought coil overs yet and those should be around 1000 or more. I have be building my car up for a while though i did not buy everything all at once or new for that matter. Thats not even including the fuel system upgrades dyno tunes and re tunes. **** breaking out of nowhere and no one wanting to help or make it right. Fi is not cheap at all, plus mot people are better off with heads and cam. Give someone to much power with little skill wont end to well.
08-24-2011, 08:24 PM
#42
Are you saying Boostedlt1 dynod 400 RWHP with stock heads, stock cam, and stock un-ported intake?
I would agree that stock heads can throw down 500 RWHP, but not without other supporting modifications to the intake, or without an aftermarket cam.
My statement was stated mearly to say that going boosted is expensive, even if you don't change the heads.
I would agree that stock heads can throw down 500 RWHP, but not without other supporting modifications to the intake, or without an aftermarket cam.
My statement was stated mearly to say that going boosted is expensive, even if you don't change the heads.
Yes, boost is expensive, if it wasn't I'd already have my turbo. All I'm saying is heads ARE NOT REQUIRED... unless you want over 500whp easily.
08-24-2011, 09:09 PM
#43
99% sure he was stock heads/cam/intake. Heads and cam are 100%. Intake I'm not sure on. Either way, you telling me with a forged bottom end and more boost he couldn't outrun 99.99% of heads/cam only cars?
Yes, boost is expensive, if it wasn't I'd already have my turbo. All I'm saying is heads ARE NOT REQUIRED... unless you want over 500whp easily.
Yes, boost is expensive, if it wasn't I'd already have my turbo. All I'm saying is heads ARE NOT REQUIRED... unless you want over 500whp easily.
As far as doing after market heads with an FI setup, I never said that it was required.
I do believe that most do it because substantial gains can be made, and when that many thousands of dollars are spent in other items anyways, what is a couple more thousand when 100+ RWHP can be attained from heads alone.
08-24-2011, 09:14 PM
#44
I would be very surprised if he made 400 RWHP on stock heads, cam, and an untouched stock intake. Not saying it didn't happen, but just that I would be very surprised. That much I'll argue with you on.
As far as doing after market heads with an FI setup, I never said that it was required.
I do believe that most do it because substantial gains can be made, and when that many thousands of dollars are spent in other items anyways, what is a couple more thousand when 100+ RWHP can be attained from heads alone.
As far as doing after market heads with an FI setup, I never said that it was required.
I do believe that most do it because substantial gains can be made, and when that many thousands of dollars are spent in other items anyways, what is a couple more thousand when 100+ RWHP can be attained from heads alone.
I never saw you say it's required, but you acted like it's needed to make more than heads/cam. Which it isn't.
And yes, when doing that much to a car you might as well do the heads. But you can make great power on stock heads. 400rwhp was easily done. 500 was definitely not out of reach for his forged bottom end if he kept his same setup.
08-24-2011, 09:24 PM
#45
PM him and get his full list. It was quite short.
I never saw you say it's required, but you acted like it's needed to make more than heads/cam. Which it isn't.
And yes, when doing that much to a car you might as well do the heads. But you can make great power on stock heads. 400rwhp was easily done. 500 was definitely not out of reach for his forged bottom end if he kept his same setup.
I never saw you say it's required, but you acted like it's needed to make more than heads/cam. Which it isn't.
And yes, when doing that much to a car you might as well do the heads. But you can make great power on stock heads. 400rwhp was easily done. 500 was definitely not out of reach for his forged bottom end if he kept his same setup.
The rest you are beating a dead horse with, because you aren't saying anything different than me.
08-25-2011, 08:17 AM
#49
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There is a distinct difference between putting a turbo or a blower on a non-forged internal high CR engine that was not meant for boost, and building a motor so it is meant for boost.
Can you put a blower or a turbo on a non-forged engine with a high CR for cheep? Sure. It will still cost you after the blower/turbo, intercooler, ignition, fuel system, meth injection, tune a solid $6,000 or so. And many people do it at 7 psi. But then again, you're still dropping $6k and at 7#'s of boost, you really won't be making very much power. This is besides the most important fact that you are running boost on an engine that was not meant to. Even if you do everything you can externally like meth injection, FMIC to keep the IAT's down, and have a safe tune, you are still rolling the dice on when the motor will go *BOOM*. You might make it to 15,000 miles, but then again, you might not make it to your next oil change. Simply put, you can't safely run boost on an engine that is not setup for it internally.
Boosting an LT1 OR an LS1 is not cheap. Thats why you don't see boosted F-bodies around every corner. There is a good thread on this in the FI section (https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...induction.html).
To build an engine to hold boost you need AT MINIMUM forged pistons with a lower than stock CR, aftermarket rods. If you want to take advantage at all of the FI application, you will need heads, cam and intake, along with springs, rocker arms, stronger timing chain, crank, different exhaust (you will need custom or turbo kit hot parts if you go turbo), on top of all the above mentioned outside the motor. An aftermarket rear if you want to hold it together, an aftermarket tranny, or clutch if you are a 6-speed, and if you want to actually use any of that power, you're looking at suspension as well as tires.
This is why it costs so much. Do it right, and you can safely run boost, knowing when you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in that your engine was built for it, and is reliable just as it was when it was N/A. Do it cheep, and every time you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in it is more than the engine was meant to handle, and every time you do it, you are rolling the dice on when it might go "pop".
Can you put a blower or a turbo on a non-forged engine with a high CR for cheep? Sure. It will still cost you after the blower/turbo, intercooler, ignition, fuel system, meth injection, tune a solid $6,000 or so. And many people do it at 7 psi. But then again, you're still dropping $6k and at 7#'s of boost, you really won't be making very much power. This is besides the most important fact that you are running boost on an engine that was not meant to. Even if you do everything you can externally like meth injection, FMIC to keep the IAT's down, and have a safe tune, you are still rolling the dice on when the motor will go *BOOM*. You might make it to 15,000 miles, but then again, you might not make it to your next oil change. Simply put, you can't safely run boost on an engine that is not setup for it internally.
Boosting an LT1 OR an LS1 is not cheap. Thats why you don't see boosted F-bodies around every corner. There is a good thread on this in the FI section (https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...induction.html).
To build an engine to hold boost you need AT MINIMUM forged pistons with a lower than stock CR, aftermarket rods. If you want to take advantage at all of the FI application, you will need heads, cam and intake, along with springs, rocker arms, stronger timing chain, crank, different exhaust (you will need custom or turbo kit hot parts if you go turbo), on top of all the above mentioned outside the motor. An aftermarket rear if you want to hold it together, an aftermarket tranny, or clutch if you are a 6-speed, and if you want to actually use any of that power, you're looking at suspension as well as tires.
This is why it costs so much. Do it right, and you can safely run boost, knowing when you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in that your engine was built for it, and is reliable just as it was when it was N/A. Do it cheep, and every time you put the hammer down and feel the boost kick in it is more than the engine was meant to handle, and every time you do it, you are rolling the dice on when it might go "pop".
I know if I want to make some power without having to worry about it I'll have to have a strong transmission and strong rear end. This is why the car's 12 bolt caught my eye so much, and why I don't want an automatic.
Obviously an LS1 has much better potential than an LT1 and is more reliable. But that 10 bolt and 4L60E...
I appreciate the advice but I'd appreciate it more if you guys help me decide.
08-25-2011, 01:57 PM
#50
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. The only thing we disagree on is whether an HCI LT1 or LS1 on 7psi make enough power or not. Personally I think it does for street use only. Track is a whole different story.
I know if I want to make some power without having to worry about it I'll have to have a strong transmission and strong rear end. This is why the car's 12 bolt caught my eye so much, and why I don't want an automatic.
Obviously an LS1 has much better potential than an LT1 and is more reliable. But that 10 bolt and 4L60E...
I appreciate the advice but I'd appreciate it more if you guys help me decide.
I know if I want to make some power without having to worry about it I'll have to have a strong transmission and strong rear end. This is why the car's 12 bolt caught my eye so much, and why I don't want an automatic.
Obviously an LS1 has much better potential than an LT1 and is more reliable. But that 10 bolt and 4L60E...
I appreciate the advice but I'd appreciate it more if you guys help me decide.
That boosted LT1 seems like a gamble. Not too dangerous one since if the parts are all on there, you could always part it out and make your money back, but this may be a deciding factor for you if the LS1's story is a little more solid, and it is ready to turn key and enjoy.
08-26-2011, 01:42 PM
#51
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I would be very surprised if he made 400 RWHP on stock heads, cam, and an untouched stock intake. Not saying it didn't happen, but just that I would be very surprised. That much I'll argue with you on.
As far as doing after market heads with an FI setup, I never said that it was required.
I do believe that most do it because substantial gains can be made, and when that many thousands of dollars are spent in other items anyways, what is a couple more thousand when 100+ RWHP can be attained from heads alone.
As far as doing after market heads with an FI setup, I never said that it was required.
I do believe that most do it because substantial gains can be made, and when that many thousands of dollars are spent in other items anyways, what is a couple more thousand when 100+ RWHP can be attained from heads alone.
like lswho said, completely original 150k mile motor. untouched heads, stock cam. the intake however was opened up to 58mm and i had a 58mm tb. but the runners at the time weren't opened up.
now i have a forged low compression heads/cam motor. only looking to put down 500-550 with it. until i upgrade the fuel system. and tranny. and rear end.
08-26-2011, 01:51 PM
#52
i made 397whp 405ft/lbs on a seriously hurt stock heads/cam motor with 150k miles. multiple cylinders were under 80-90psi compression at the time of the dyno. stock rings dont hold up to boost very well after two years
like lswho said, completely original 150k mile motor. untouched heads, stock cam. the intake however was opened up to 58mm and i had a 58mm tb. but the runners at the time weren't opened up.
now i have a forged low compression heads/cam motor. only looking to put down 500-550 with it. until i upgrade the fuel system. and tranny. and rear end.
like lswho said, completely original 150k mile motor. untouched heads, stock cam. the intake however was opened up to 58mm and i had a 58mm tb. but the runners at the time weren't opened up.
now i have a forged low compression heads/cam motor. only looking to put down 500-550 with it. until i upgrade the fuel system. and tranny. and rear end.
Be that as it is, that is still impressive. My build is on some ported AFR 180 heads, a very large non boost friendly cam, and I was able to make 614 RWHP, so you should easily be able to hit what you are looking for.
08-26-2011, 03:22 PM
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the two holes for the throttle body were opened to 58mm... apparently that counts as a "ported intake"...
****, why'd i waste my time messing with the runners for the new build! i already had a ported intake!
****, why'd i waste my time messing with the runners for the new build! i already had a ported intake!
08-26-2011, 05:50 PM
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I was waiting for boosted to jump in. I seen your dyno vid when your car made those number and in the video you could see the car dripping and having issue. I think those are bad *** numbers for a stock internal lt1 with those miles.
08-27-2011, 02:51 PM
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Boosted have you dyno your car since the new upgrades?
I had mine tuned last week without the turbo installed and ran into a few issues, but i still manged to put down 422/390rwhp on a 108 degree day in florida. On the drive home i ripped the y pipe into 2 pieces. guess i was a little excited and floored it to much.lol Interested to see how yours goes
I had mine tuned last week without the turbo installed and ran into a few issues, but i still manged to put down 422/390rwhp on a 108 degree day in florida. On the drive home i ripped the y pipe into 2 pieces. guess i was a little excited and floored it to much.lol Interested to see how yours goes
08-27-2011, 05:44 PM
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Boosted have you dyno your car since the new upgrades?
I had mine tuned last week without the turbo installed and ran into a few issues, but i still manged to put down 422/390rwhp on a 108 degree day in florida. On the drive home i ripped the y pipe into 2 pieces. guess i was a little excited and floored it to much.lol Interested to see how yours goes
I had mine tuned last week without the turbo installed and ran into a few issues, but i still manged to put down 422/390rwhp on a 108 degree day in florida. On the drive home i ripped the y pipe into 2 pieces. guess i was a little excited and floored it to much.lol Interested to see how yours goes
nice numbers!!
it was just 117 degrees here yesterday... weather has been holding me back, dont like running it hard in this heat, especially since i haven't had time to really work on the tune or log it much, just got my new wideband sensor, got it calibrated and installed today. once the temp drops back down to 90-95 or so at night ill go work on it. my tranny really doesn't like the heat
my local f-body club has a dyno day set up for October, it'll hopfully be back to mid-high 90's by then. when i dyno'ed the stock motor it was 99 degrees.
i only have 42lb injectors on the car right now so those will be holing me back.
