New 383...working the bugs out
02-02-2012, 10:04 AM
#1
New 383...working the bugs out So I'm finally on the last stretch of my forged "budget" 
383 build going on 8 months now, exhaust is hooked up as of yesterday and it is drivable with a PCM for less tune; however I have some bugs/issues to work out before it gets inspected and dyno tuned and I'd like to hear some feedback on my concerns.
1. Oil pressure seems unusually high....pins the gauge at 80 psi even at idle
It does have: Melling 155HVOil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud, Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear and a 7 qt moroso pan. Is this cause for concern?
2. I'm officially an electric waterpump hater now....I bought a lightly used Meziere electric waterpump and it either died or the mechanic who installed the motor didn't wire it up right
So the car gets up to 220 degrees within 2 mins of starting 
Needless to say I can't drive it until this is fixed. It was tested before it was installed and worked fine....(does running one of these with no water for a couple seconds screw it up?) So if anybody has the wiring instructions to one of these let me know....I'm pretty pissed the mechanic didn't test the damn thing once installed....although part of that is my fault because the PCM wasn't tuned at the time the motor was done so it was not run to operating temp until recently, he only started it for 30 secs or so when the motor was installed.
3. PITA leaky headers. Once again, I have a leak on my passenger side header between #4 and #6....what is a decent header gasket to use for a problem header?
4 Starter will BARELY turn this beast over....it's VERY slow turning the engine and drains the battery quickly. New OE starter or get a geared reduction aftermarket one? FYI...motor is only 11.5 compression
Constructive advice is appreciated.
383 build going on 8 months now, exhaust is hooked up as of yesterday and it is drivable with a PCM for less tune; however I have some bugs/issues to work out before it gets inspected and dyno tuned and I'd like to hear some feedback on my concerns.1. Oil pressure seems unusually high....pins the gauge at 80 psi even at idle
It does have: Melling 155HVOil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud, Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear and a 7 qt moroso pan. Is this cause for concern?2. I'm officially an electric waterpump hater now....I bought a lightly used Meziere electric waterpump and it either died or the mechanic who installed the motor didn't wire it up right
So the car gets up to 220 degrees within 2 mins of starting Needless to say I can't drive it until this is fixed. It was tested before it was installed and worked fine....(does running one of these with no water for a couple seconds screw it up?) So if anybody has the wiring instructions to one of these let me know....I'm pretty pissed the mechanic didn't test the damn thing once installed....although part of that is my fault because the PCM wasn't tuned at the time the motor was done so it was not run to operating temp until recently, he only started it for 30 secs or so when the motor was installed. 3. PITA leaky headers. Once again, I have a leak on my passenger side header between #4 and #6....what is a decent header gasket to use for a problem header?
4 Starter will BARELY turn this beast over....it's VERY slow turning the engine and drains the battery quickly. New OE starter or get a geared reduction aftermarket one? FYI...motor is only 11.5 compression
Constructive advice is appreciated.
Last edited by ahritchie; 02-02-2012 at 12:47 PM. Reason: add issue #4
02-02-2012, 10:11 AM
#2
So I'm finally on the last stretch of my forged "budget" 383 build going on 8 months now, exhaust is hooked up as of yesterday and it is drivable with a PCM for less tune; however I have some bugs/issues to work out before it gets inspected and dyno tuned and I'd like to hear some feedback on my concerns.
1. Oil pressure seems unusually high....pins the gauge at 80 psi even at idle It does have: Melling 155HVOil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud, Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear and a 7 qt moroso pan. Is this cause for concern?
2. I'm officially an electric waterpump hater now....I bought a lightly used Meziere electric waterpump and it either died or the mechanic who installed the motor didn't wire it up right So the car gets up to 220 degrees within 2 mins of starting Needless to say I can't drive it until this is fixed. It was tested before it was installed and worked fine....(does running one of these with no water for a couple seconds screw it up?) So if anybody has the wiring instructions to one of these let me know....I'm pretty pissed the mechanic didn't test the damn thing once installed....although part of that is my fault because the PCM wasn't tuned at the time the motor was done so it was not run to operating temp until recently, he only started it for 30 secs or so when the motor was installed.
3. PITA leaky headers. Once again, I have a leak on my passenger side header between #4 and #6....what is a decent header gasket to use for a problem header?
Constructive advice is appreciated.
383 build going on 8 months now, exhaust is hooked up as of yesterday and it is drivable with a PCM for less tune; however I have some bugs/issues to work out before it gets inspected and dyno tuned and I'd like to hear some feedback on my concerns.1. Oil pressure seems unusually high....pins the gauge at 80 psi even at idle
It does have: Melling 155HVOil Pump w/ Milodon Pump Bracket, hardened drive shaft, ARP Pump Stud, Herron Billet Aluminum Oil Pump Drive w/ factory gear and a 7 qt moroso pan. Is this cause for concern?2. I'm officially an electric waterpump hater now....I bought a lightly used Meziere electric waterpump and it either died or the mechanic who installed the motor didn't wire it up right
So the car gets up to 220 degrees within 2 mins of starting Needless to say I can't drive it until this is fixed. It was tested before it was installed and worked fine....(does running one of these with no water for a couple seconds screw it up?) So if anybody has the wiring instructions to one of these let me know....I'm pretty pissed the mechanic didn't test the damn thing once installed....although part of that is my fault because the PCM wasn't tuned at the time the motor was done so it was not run to operating temp until recently, he only started it for 30 secs or so when the motor was installed. 3. PITA leaky headers. Once again, I have a leak on my passenger side header between #4 and #6....what is a decent header gasket to use for a problem header?
Constructive advice is appreciated.
as for the pump it can run waterless for a decent amount of time so that prob didn't do it.......wiring is a simple standard circuit through a relay that is triggered with ignition sw12 volts.......make sure the guts inside the pump are removed and not pressing on the snout of the EWP or it will kill it........
for a warped header flange or unflat exhaust surface on the head use remflex gaskets or fix the header
02-02-2012, 10:12 AM
#3
Does the gauge move at all? If the sensor is disconnected it will pin the gauge. Sounds like the connector or wiring is broken. Also, for 95% of builds a high volume oil pump isn't necessary - just creates undue strain on the oil pump drive gear and takes more power to turn with no serious benefit.
EWPs work just fine. Unfortunately what happened to yours is the risk you take when you buy used parts, especially electronic parts. My CSR has been running strong for 8 years.
What headers do you have? I've always liked the 1406s from Felpro.
EWPs work just fine. Unfortunately what happened to yours is the risk you take when you buy used parts, especially electronic parts. My CSR has been running strong for 8 years.
What headers do you have? I've always liked the 1406s from Felpro.
02-02-2012, 10:31 AM
#4
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
1. Can't draw a concrete conclusion until you run the oil up to operating temp. It may be normal since a standard pump w/ stock clearances will be around 60psi at cold startup. You should, however make doubly sure all is connected. You may even should use an analog guage since this is a brand new engine.
2. It's possible the motor is weak, could spin on it's own, but cannot handle moving water. Meziere charges a flat rate of around $100 to have it rebuilt.
No pics anymore, but here's the gist of how to wire it:
http://www.ws6.com/kelley-wp.htm
Wiring the pump using a relay and direct source off the battery is far better than relying on a circuit not meant for the load the pump would demand.
3. The flange on the header may be warped. As RA stated, 1406's are the bombdiggity.
2. It's possible the motor is weak, could spin on it's own, but cannot handle moving water. Meziere charges a flat rate of around $100 to have it rebuilt.
No pics anymore, but here's the gist of how to wire it:
http://www.ws6.com/kelley-wp.htm
Wiring the pump using a relay and direct source off the battery is far better than relying on a circuit not meant for the load the pump would demand.
3. The flange on the header may be warped. As RA stated, 1406's are the bombdiggity.
02-02-2012, 10:45 AM
#5
Does the gauge move at all? If the sensor is disconnected it will pin the gauge. Sounds like the connector or wiring is broken. Also, for 95% of builds a high volume oil pump isn't necessary - just creates undue strain on the oil pump drive gear and takes more power to turn with no serious benefit.
EWPs work just fine. Unfortunately what happened to yours is the risk you take when you buy used parts, especially electronic parts. My CSR has been running strong for 8 years.
What headers do you have? I've always liked the 1406s from Felpro.
EWPs work just fine. Unfortunately what happened to yours is the risk you take when you buy used parts, especially electronic parts. My CSR has been running strong for 8 years.
What headers do you have? I've always liked the 1406s from Felpro.
02-02-2012, 10:59 AM
#7
Your water temp should not be hitting that high so soon. I can drive 4 miles before I even get near operating temp. Is it possible the wiring is reversed and the impeller is spinning the wrong way?
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02-02-2012, 11:35 AM
#8
....although the hoses radiator don't get that hot. You should be able to hear the WP whining/buzzing/whatever when you turn the key to the on position to prime the fuel pump (not starting) correct? (I am an electric WP newb). The guy I bought the WP from already installed in in the WP housing and had used it with no issues before FWIW.
02-02-2012, 01:27 PM
#12
Oil pressure- Key on engine off, what does it read?
Water pump- Run direct 12v and ground, what happens?
Headers- Take the leaker off a put a straightedge on the flange, is it warped?
Starter- Does it only have a hard time when the engine is hot due to the water pump issue?
Water pump- Run direct 12v and ground, what happens?
Headers- Take the leaker off a put a straightedge on the flange, is it warped?
Starter- Does it only have a hard time when the engine is hot due to the water pump issue?
02-02-2012, 01:52 PM
#13
Oil pressure- Key on engine off, what does it read?
Water pump- Run direct 12v and ground, what happens?
Headers- Take the leaker off a put a straightedge on the flange, is it warped?
Starter- Does it only have a hard time when the engine is hot due to the water pump issue?
Water pump- Run direct 12v and ground, what happens?
Headers- Take the leaker off a put a straightedge on the flange, is it warped?
Starter- Does it only have a hard time when the engine is hot due to the water pump issue?
02-02-2012, 02:14 PM
#14
Hmmmm....just doing a little proactive research on this Meziere electric WP and stumbled across the product info sheet on their website. http://www.meziere.com/images/produc...tion/WP118.pdf
It seems these WP's have a 20 amp fuse included in the wiring harness; maybe the fuse got blown when I had to jump start the car once due to the starter draining the battery? I'll try to find this fuse when I get home. The sheet also mentions the pump should be able to be run dry for a few seconds, so I doubt that killed it. Looks like the wiring should be pretty straight forward.
02-02-2012, 03:19 PM
#15
I also see Meziere makes a relay kit for these pumps....what is the purpose of this? As mentioned, I'm new to electric water pumps and don't know much about auto electrical stuff. Somebody school me.
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
02-02-2012, 03:36 PM
#16
I also see Meziere makes a relay kit for these pumps....what is the purpose of this? As mentioned, I'm new to electric water pumps and don't know much about auto electrical stuff. Somebody school me.
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
02-02-2012, 06:41 PM
#18
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
I also see Meziere makes a relay kit for these pumps....what is the purpose of this? As mentioned, I'm new to electric water pumps and don't know much about auto electrical stuff. Somebody school me.
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
http://www.meziere.com/ps-419-389-wik346.aspx
No pics anymore, but here's the gist of how to wire it:
http://www.ws6.com/kelley-wp.htm
Wiring the pump using a relay and direct source off the battery is far better than relying on a circuit not meant for the load the pump would demand.
http://www.ws6.com/kelley-wp.htm
Wiring the pump using a relay and direct source off the battery is far better than relying on a circuit not meant for the load the pump would demand.
Here's how I hooked my electrical connections up. Using the Barry Grant Relay, I wired power directly from the battery into the relay for the pump. To activate the relay, I needed a power "reference". The relay takes very little power to activate so you can safely hook it up in a variety of different places. That's why I like using the relays! Since I wanted the pump to be on only when the key was in the IGN position (not the ACCY position), and not to run and draw power while the engine was cranking, I chose the cooling fan power line as shown in the picture.
To get to it, I removed the fuse box from it's holder. There a plastic "pressure clip" on the bottom that you can press, and it will slide out towards the passenger side. Once you have it out, you can open the back cover easily. I used a simple splicer connector on mine to hook it in.
To get to it, I removed the fuse box from it's holder. There a plastic "pressure clip" on the bottom that you can press, and it will slide out towards the passenger side. Once you have it out, you can open the back cover easily. I used a simple splicer connector on mine to hook it in.
Barry Grant Relay
It's the same thing as the Meziere relay yet cheaper.
Take it FWIW.
Last edited by SS RRR; 02-02-2012 at 07:24 PM.
02-02-2012, 08:21 PM
#19
I'll have to get back to you on those first 3 ...at work now. The starter is weak as hell all the time even when the engine is cold. It only turns the motor over for a split second, very slowly, so it will either fire immediately or just "click" until you retry starting again. I'll try checking the grounds as mentioned when I get some time. The starter does have 150K on it, but had no issues turning over the stock motor.
On the starter problem, first, visually check the cable connections for a poor contact. If that checks out, do a physical check (wiggle the cable connections and see if anything moves). Next, check battery voltage across the terminals. It should be 12.6v or better. If it isn't, replace or recharge and test the battery. Once that checks out, do a voltage drop test by installing a voltmeter from the + terminal on the battery to the + terminal on the starter. Have an assistant crank it while you watch the voltmeter. Do the same with the negative side. If either side shows more than 3 volts, replace the cable. After all of that checks out and it still starts like ****, replace the starter with an LT4 unit from the stealership. After that, if it still doesn't start right, it is time to eat a 12 guage because your shiny new engine is partially seized.
02-05-2012, 03:51 PM
#20
LOL... wondering if you have me on ignore with the lack of responses. If you don't... Gezus...
And this is what the link says regarding using a relay:
And here it is:
Barry Grant Relay
It's the same thing as the Meziere relay yet cheaper.
Take it FWIW.
And this is what the link says regarding using a relay:
And here it is:
Barry Grant Relay
It's the same thing as the Meziere relay yet cheaper.
Take it FWIW.
Turn on the ignition, and what do you know, the WP is buzzing! So turns out my electric WP hate was a little premature. As for the starting issue, I bought a battery charger and am putting a charge on it before anything else....it has been sitting for 8 months now and only run a few minutes, it may just be a weak battery because it runs great otherwise. I'll keep everyone updated on the weak starter issue and the high oil pressure once I get some break-in miles on it this week.