So after using the search function all night...here's my combo
09-19-2012, 03:05 PM
#21
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If I sacrifice 20 RWHP for better driveability and a couple MPG, I may be alone on this board...but I'm ok with it
What does everyone think about the two cams I mentioned above? 
09-19-2012, 03:08 PM
#22
I made 376/377 last year with a few problems im probubly up about 5-10rwhp now. The cam is very nice to cruise with but there is some surge we cant get rid of with the lt1 pcm and now with the ls1 pcm. Car runs like a champ on the road and is very easy to drive and highly rec it. IMO i would go step up the heads just incase you wanted to go bigger down the road atleast your ready for it. So that being said i would go with the LE2/AI200cc head and a mild cams such as the ai 222/230 or le 223 or 224/230 cam. Should easily net you what power goal your after.
As for gears the best mod i did was do 4.10 gears. Night and day difference on the street and will keep your car in the powerband better when you do the h/c swap. I barely noticed much of a difference in mpg between stock 3.42s and 4.10s. At 65-70 you would run about 1800 with 4.10s its about 2100.
As for gears the best mod i did was do 4.10 gears. Night and day difference on the street and will keep your car in the powerband better when you do the h/c swap. I barely noticed much of a difference in mpg between stock 3.42s and 4.10s. At 65-70 you would run about 1800 with 4.10s its about 2100.
09-19-2012, 03:10 PM
#23
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Jason,
Nice to see you over here. Here's my $0.02.
1-3) With what you have planned for tires and staying with the 10 bolt behind an M6, my recommendation is to stay with the stock 3.42s. Going to a shorter gear is just going to exacerbate a traction problem I'm sure you already have at your current power level and reduce your gas mileage.
4) Stay with your stock injectors and intake manifold, they will be enough for what you're doing.
You should be able to find LT1 cores for about $150-$200. Keep in mind there are, I believe, two different castings, 374s and 643s; the 374s have a little more meat on them for porting so keep that in mind. It's been beaten to death on here, but you can't go wrong with LE or AI.
As far as the cam, there are numerous "shelf" grinds that are better than the Hot Cam. I have the Comp Cams 269HR-12 and it drives great, power everywhere. Comp also makes an XFI grind with basically the same duration but more lift (268XFI HR13); LE also has a grind that's very similar. If those grinds were out when I did the cam/heads on my car, that's what I would've chosen.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP...g_2012_186.pdf
http://elliottsportworks.com/?page_id=32
I also have my PCM tuned by Madtuner. I'm pretty happy with it, but I plan on getting a dyno tune this winter. If there are any good tuners in your area, I'd recommend doing that because it will make your cammed car drive that much better.
Definitely go with long tube headers, you'll be thankful for the extra power and the first time you go to change spark plugs.
Lastly, don't forget to budget for all the ancilliary crap like the buttload of gaskets, bolts, and hoses you're going to end up needing for the job. Good luck.
Nice to see you over here. Here's my $0.02.
1-3) With what you have planned for tires and staying with the 10 bolt behind an M6, my recommendation is to stay with the stock 3.42s. Going to a shorter gear is just going to exacerbate a traction problem I'm sure you already have at your current power level and reduce your gas mileage.
4) Stay with your stock injectors and intake manifold, they will be enough for what you're doing.
You should be able to find LT1 cores for about $150-$200. Keep in mind there are, I believe, two different castings, 374s and 643s; the 374s have a little more meat on them for porting so keep that in mind. It's been beaten to death on here, but you can't go wrong with LE or AI.
As far as the cam, there are numerous "shelf" grinds that are better than the Hot Cam. I have the Comp Cams 269HR-12 and it drives great, power everywhere. Comp also makes an XFI grind with basically the same duration but more lift (268XFI HR13); LE also has a grind that's very similar. If those grinds were out when I did the cam/heads on my car, that's what I would've chosen.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP...g_2012_186.pdf
http://elliottsportworks.com/?page_id=32
I also have my PCM tuned by Madtuner. I'm pretty happy with it, but I plan on getting a dyno tune this winter. If there are any good tuners in your area, I'd recommend doing that because it will make your cammed car drive that much better.
Definitely go with long tube headers, you'll be thankful for the extra power and the first time you go to change spark plugs.
Lastly, don't forget to budget for all the ancilliary crap like the buttload of gaskets, bolts, and hoses you're going to end up needing for the job. Good luck.
1) What am I giving up, with the proposed combo, on the road and track by keeping 3.42s? I am honestly really up in the air on what to do with gear. A lot of people say go 4.10, and don't even worry about it. I worry about it
300 RPM at 80 doesn't sound so bad, admittedly....2) What do you have for a setup that Madtuner tuned for you? Was it done right the first time? There are a couple chassis dyno shops down in CT, but I know nothing about their work. It seems like Madtuner, despite not having a live chassis dyno to work with, gets rave reviews from the LT crew. I imagine he has already "been there, done that" tuning a combo like what I'm looking at...
09-19-2012, 03:13 PM
#24
On The Tree
Thread Starter
I made 376/377 last year with a few problems im probubly up about 5-10rwhp now. The cam is very nice to cruise with but there is some surge we cant get rid of with the lt1 pcm and now with the ls1 pcm. Car runs like a champ on the road and is very easy to drive and highly rec it. IMO i would go step up the heads just incase you wanted to go bigger down the road atleast your ready for it. So that being said i would go with the LE2/AI200cc head and a mild cams such as the ai 222/230 or le 223 or 224/230 cam. Should easily net you what power goal your after.
As for gears the best mod i did was do 4.10 gears. Night and day difference on the street and will keep your car in the powerband better when you do the h/c swap. I barely noticed much of a difference in mpg between stock 3.42s and 4.10s. At 65-70 you would run about 1800 with 4.10s its about 2100.
As for gears the best mod i did was do 4.10 gears. Night and day difference on the street and will keep your car in the powerband better when you do the h/c swap. I barely noticed much of a difference in mpg between stock 3.42s and 4.10s. At 65-70 you would run about 1800 with 4.10s its about 2100.
Asinine, mod noob question...what exactly does cam surge feel like? I imagine we're talking about a bogging/shuddering/non-linear-feeling delivery of power in a certain RPM range?
09-19-2012, 03:21 PM
#25
I have the hotcam and really like it but IMO it would be the wrong choice to use with AI or LE heads. If you stay with stock heads then I can recommend the hotcam. Ion (madtuner) has ALOT of experience tuning the hotcam and I have his mail tune and I'm very happy with how the car runs.
09-19-2012, 03:23 PM
#26
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Thread Starter
I have the hotcam and really like it but IMO it would be the wrong choice to use with AI or LE heads. If you stay with stock heads then I can recommend the hotcam. Ion (madtuner) has ALOT of experience tuning the hotcam and I have his mail tune and I'm very happy with how the car runs.
It seems I saw a fair amount of heads with hot cam installs, but maybe I didn't pay enough attention. I am leaning towards AI or LE at the moment, but I want to consider all options.
I will not ask everyone about the Edelbrock LT4 option, however
09-19-2012, 03:23 PM
#27
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1) What am I giving up, with the proposed combo, on the road and track by keeping 3.42s? I am honestly really up in the air on what to do with gear. A lot of people say go 4.10, and don't even worry about it. I worry about it 300 RPM at 80 doesn't sound so bad, admittedly....
300 RPM at 80 doesn't sound so bad, admittedly....
2) What do you have for a setup that Madtuner tuned for you? Was it done right the first time? There are a couple chassis dyno shops down in CT, but I know nothing about their work. It seems like Madtuner, despite not having a live chassis dyno to work with, gets rave reviews from the LT crew. I imagine he has already "been there, done that" tuning a combo like what I'm looking at...
09-19-2012, 03:26 PM
#28
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Because I am slightly neurotic about MPG and driveability, what IS a good head idea for the Hot Cam? Just leaving them alone? Try to find a set of used LT4s and port them?
It seems I saw a fair amount of heads with hot cam installs, but maybe I didn't pay enough attention. I am leaning towards AI or LE at the moment, but I want to consider all options.
I will not ask everyone about the Edelbrock LT4 option, however
It seems I saw a fair amount of heads with hot cam installs, but maybe I didn't pay enough attention. I am leaning towards AI or LE at the moment, but I want to consider all options.
I will not ask everyone about the Edelbrock LT4 option, however
09-19-2012, 03:34 PM
#30
I really don't think you'd be giving up anything at the track by keeping the 3.42s if you plan to race on street tires. You'll have better traction with those than if you switch to something shorter (3.73 and up). If you switch even just to 3.73s, you're looking at losing about 2mpg; 4.10s probably 3-4mpg. Another factor to consider is, that when switching to shorter gearing, you're actually weakening the ring/pinion setup (pinion is physically smaller), which IMO isn't desirable for an already weak rear end behind an M6. If you decide to run a DR at the track, you better start saving for a new rear end (9"/12 bolt/S60). By the way, what are you running for a clutch right now?
09-19-2012, 03:45 PM
#31
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Thread Starter
I really don't think you'd be giving up anything at the track by keeping the 3.42s if you plan to race on street tires. You'll have better traction with those than if you switch to something shorter (3.73 and up). If you switch even just to 3.73s, you're looking at losing about 2mpg; 4.10s probably 3-4mpg. Another factor to consider is, that when switching to shorter gearing, you're actually weakening the ring/pinion setup (pinion is physically smaller), which IMO isn't desirable for an already weak rear end behind an M6. If you decide to run a DR at the track, you better start saving for a new rear end (9"/12 bolt/S60). By the way, what are you running for a clutch right now?
If you look at my cardomain site in my signature, that's what I have done to the car. It's basically a cam/heads very similar to what you're planning (LE heads/CC502 cam).
If you look at my cardomain site in my signature, that's what I have done to the car. It's basically a cam/heads very similar to what you're planning (LE heads/CC502 cam).
2) Can you believe at 73k I still have the stock clutch??
Don't worry...I don't expect it to live much longer with a fresh motor...
09-19-2012, 03:47 PM
#32
On The Tree
Thread Starter
09-19-2012, 03:48 PM
#33
On The Tree
Thread Starter
I imagine the 190cc is milder enough to still meet my goals. I know people have recommended the 200cc package, but my initial reaction after looking last night was the 190 package...
09-19-2012, 03:50 PM
#34
I'm at 120k on the stock clutch, no sign of slip yet, yours should last a while longer if you take care of it.
My mpg went from 17 around town to 15 mpg with the cam and gears,and I can do better if I use 6th gear more, so you don't need to worry so much about mpg.
My mpg went from 17 around town to 15 mpg with the cam and gears,and I can do better if I use 6th gear more, so you don't need to worry so much about mpg.
Last edited by guppymech; 09-19-2012 at 03:56 PM.
09-19-2012, 03:51 PM
#35
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Thread Starter
I think the bigger question is, how well will the 10 bolt live with a 3.42 and street tires? When I ran my 13.96, I was spinning through the 11 year old GSCs it wore until May. I already know my fresh 275s alone could cut a couple tenths off what I just did...my 60 foot times ranged from 2.2-2.9.
Remember, this was my first time at the track...with an M6...with 2001 era street tires
09-19-2012, 03:53 PM
#36
On The Tree
Thread Starter
This car has never really been abused, and May was the cars' first time ever at a track. On the street, I'm not a woos, but I'm not beating it either.
09-19-2012, 04:03 PM
#37
Just read this...will keep that in mind as I go along. Again, reliability and the end result is more important to me than the costs involved. I will likely be going to the Wednesday night cruise-in with this car 20 years from now, just like I am right now
I think the bigger question is, how well will the 10 bolt live with a 3.42 and street tires? When I ran my 13.96, I was spinning through the 11 year old GSCs it wore until May. I already know my fresh 275s alone could cut a couple tenths off what I just did...my 60 foot times ranged from 2.2-2.9.
Remember, this was my first time at the track...with an M6...with 2001 era street tires
I think the bigger question is, how well will the 10 bolt live with a 3.42 and street tires? When I ran my 13.96, I was spinning through the 11 year old GSCs it wore until May. I already know my fresh 275s alone could cut a couple tenths off what I just did...my 60 foot times ranged from 2.2-2.9.
Remember, this was my first time at the track...with an M6...with 2001 era street tires
09-19-2012, 04:14 PM
#38
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theres alot more to cams then just their numbers, the valve events are equally important. the hot cam is an old design, allot of newer designs have better profiles with more aggressive ramp rates etc. like others have said call lloyd or phil and they'll suggest a cam that will perform better(cam only) with the same manners as the hot cam and more importantly will be better suited for ported heads.
if I was you I wouldn't worry about the rear atm. replace it with what you want when it blows. mine will go soon and I plan on just picking up a used torsen 3.73 out of an auto LS until that blows again then I figure I'll be ready to upgrade to an S60 w/ 3.90's cause a) its not a drag car and b) I like the high mpg's I get in 6th
.
also being in MA and OBD2 we still have some emission requirements but nothing that can't be defeated by a tune. I ditched AIR, EGR and rear o2's as I'm going to replace my high flo cat with one of these> http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php...ac522116478330
if you don't want the catless smell I'll sell you mine if you like, its only got 1 season on it. I also have a spare set of 643 heads in my garage which are perfectly fine for LE2 or equivalent porting. its when you go bigger that the 374's are really desirable. 150 is what I paid for the cores I bought so lemme know if your interested.
as far as fueling def get a new FP like a walboro and you might want to upgrade your injectors as well, I picked up a set of SVO 30# red tops off here for cheap in the classifieds.
don't consider LT4 any thing the marginal gains are not worth the big $$$$$$ increase.
contact slohawk and see if he'll work on your LT1, hes the only reputable fbody orientated shop around here that I know of... tho LT1's aren't his favorite
if I was you I wouldn't worry about the rear atm. replace it with what you want when it blows. mine will go soon and I plan on just picking up a used torsen 3.73 out of an auto LS until that blows again then I figure I'll be ready to upgrade to an S60 w/ 3.90's cause a) its not a drag car and b) I like the high mpg's I get in 6th
. also being in MA and OBD2 we still have some emission requirements but nothing that can't be defeated by a tune. I ditched AIR, EGR and rear o2's as I'm going to replace my high flo cat with one of these> http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php...ac522116478330
if you don't want the catless smell I'll sell you mine if you like, its only got 1 season on it. I also have a spare set of 643 heads in my garage which are perfectly fine for LE2 or equivalent porting. its when you go bigger that the 374's are really desirable. 150 is what I paid for the cores I bought so lemme know if your interested.
as far as fueling def get a new FP like a walboro and you might want to upgrade your injectors as well, I picked up a set of SVO 30# red tops off here for cheap in the classifieds.
don't consider LT4 any thing the marginal gains are not worth the big $$$$$$ increase.
contact slohawk and see if he'll work on your LT1, hes the only reputable fbody orientated shop around here that I know of... tho LT1's aren't his favorite
09-19-2012, 08:03 PM
#40
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