So after using the search function all night...here's my combo
09-19-2012, 08:32 AM
#1
On The Tree
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So after using the search function all night...here's my combo Gotta say, there's an absolute wealth of knoweldge on this site, and I am amazed at how hard some of you guys have these things running...
Anyway, as I said in another thread I started a few days back, I was researching LTs and it kinda snowballed on me. I want to do heads/cam on my LT1 I've owned for 12 years. The car has 73k on it, and still looks and feels turnkey-new. Adding to my SLP CAI, airfoil and 2OTL, I plan to do the following...
-GM LT4 Hot Cam Kit
-LE2 heads (planning to buy cores and send them to him...anyone know what a good price is to pay for cores?)
-Have LE port a core intake
-Stainless Works or Kooks LTs with cats
-Madtuner tune
The following questions I have are...
1) Is upgrading to a 3.73 gear worth it? It doesn't seem like a big jump over 3.42s, but maybe its enough to be beneficial? I know the gears and install kit are around $300. What is an average price to have them installed? I work 60 hours a week...ALL of this work is going to have to be farmed out.
2) Would 4.10s hurt MPG much more than 3.73s will?
3) What kind of highway MPG could I expect from the above combo with 3.73s? I get 25-26 MPG on a highway cruise now at a steady 75 MPH
4) Are there any other supporting mods I should consider, besides injectors? Am I at the point where I need to consider a new fuel pump, or an AFPR? Or, will bigger injectors and a tune support what I am looking to do?
My goal is to be able to create a fun, SAFE combo with clean driveability that will be a blast on the street, and I can go to the track twice a year and do 6-7 runs in the mid-upper 12s on street tires. I am aware drag radials may make more sense to get to that number, and I do have my original white 16s available to throw DRs on. The problem I see is an M6 with gears = dead 10 bolt after a short time.
Streetability, reliability and something approaching liveable MPG are a little more important than every last HP. Based on my searches, I would like to get into the 375-385 RWHP range, and hope that this can be done without making it a bear to drive. This is not a DD...I drive it for fun about 3-4k miles a year. But I may be taking it to FL next year, which will be 3k miles alone.
Thoughts are appreciated...I am looking at this, with labor, to be somewhere in the $5k range. If I'm nuts, tell me...this is my first time doing engine work. If anyone knows a good shop in the MA/CT area, I am all ears. I am not planning to do this until Spring, so I have a good 6 months to research all this and collect the parts.
Anyway, as I said in another thread I started a few days back, I was researching LTs and it kinda snowballed on me. I want to do heads/cam on my LT1 I've owned for 12 years. The car has 73k on it, and still looks and feels turnkey-new. Adding to my SLP CAI, airfoil and 2OTL, I plan to do the following...
-GM LT4 Hot Cam Kit
-LE2 heads (planning to buy cores and send them to him...anyone know what a good price is to pay for cores?)
-Have LE port a core intake
-Stainless Works or Kooks LTs with cats
-Madtuner tune
The following questions I have are...
1) Is upgrading to a 3.73 gear worth it? It doesn't seem like a big jump over 3.42s, but maybe its enough to be beneficial? I know the gears and install kit are around $300. What is an average price to have them installed? I work 60 hours a week...ALL of this work is going to have to be farmed out.
2) Would 4.10s hurt MPG much more than 3.73s will?
3) What kind of highway MPG could I expect from the above combo with 3.73s? I get 25-26 MPG on a highway cruise now at a steady 75 MPH
4) Are there any other supporting mods I should consider, besides injectors? Am I at the point where I need to consider a new fuel pump, or an AFPR? Or, will bigger injectors and a tune support what I am looking to do?
My goal is to be able to create a fun, SAFE combo with clean driveability that will be a blast on the street, and I can go to the track twice a year and do 6-7 runs in the mid-upper 12s on street tires. I am aware drag radials may make more sense to get to that number, and I do have my original white 16s available to throw DRs on. The problem I see is an M6 with gears = dead 10 bolt after a short time.
Streetability, reliability and something approaching liveable MPG are a little more important than every last HP. Based on my searches, I would like to get into the 375-385 RWHP range, and hope that this can be done without making it a bear to drive. This is not a DD...I drive it for fun about 3-4k miles a year. But I may be taking it to FL next year, which will be 3k miles alone.
Thoughts are appreciated...I am looking at this, with labor, to be somewhere in the $5k range. If I'm nuts, tell me...this is my first time doing engine work. If anyone knows a good shop in the MA/CT area, I am all ears. I am not planning to do this until Spring, so I have a good 6 months to research all this and collect the parts.
09-19-2012, 08:38 AM
#2
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Oh yeah...the other direction is the above but doing something with AI's 190cc package...not sure what the streetability is like of that or the 200cc package. In my searches, I found more info on LT4 Hot Cam kits and LE heads. One thing I like about AIs packages is yes, they are more expensive...but they seem to include pretty much EVERYTHING.
One thing I forgot in the above combo was new pushrods...thoughts on those?
One thing I forgot in the above combo was new pushrods...thoughts on those?
09-19-2012, 09:03 AM
#4
On The Tree
Thread Starter
What is the driveability like with that idea? Still ok? I see you're in Haverhill...I live about an hour and a half from you (head up to Hampton Beach all the time)...any good shops you know of out your way?
As you know, we don't have to pass MA emissions anymore...but I still want something that behaves itself, so to speak.
As you know, we don't have to pass MA emissions anymore...but I still want something that behaves itself, so to speak.
09-19-2012, 10:09 AM
#5
You don't need the hotcam KIT because the le packages come with springs and valve seals and all that noise. What's wrong with the le1 kit and his 224/230 cam? He designs his cams to work with his heads. I would poke around a little more on elliotsportworks.com. You will not get 375-385 with le2s and the hotcam especially through an auto.
09-19-2012, 10:37 AM
#7
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Indeed, it is a 6 speed...so again, thoughts on gears are much appreciated. I know if I had an A4 I would need to do something with a TC...but with an M6, now I'm debating how many track runs I can get out of the 10 bolt.
I was on LE's site quite a bit last night...and I admit it was late. I honestly forgot the LE kits came with some of the stuff in the hot cam kit. Originally I was leaning towards LE, but am now wondering if AI might be worth the additional coin. I know LE vs. AI is a constant argument on here, and I'm not looking to turn this thread into one of those....
I am curious though to hear from people that have gone down a similar road to me, and what the real world driveability and issues are like. Again, gears is something I am factoring into this as well. Money is not an issue here...having an end product worth the effort is.
It is likely I will have this car 20 years from now...I've already had it for 12, and I have plenty of room to keep it. I want to do this right.
I was on LE's site quite a bit last night...and I admit it was late. I honestly forgot the LE kits came with some of the stuff in the hot cam kit. Originally I was leaning towards LE, but am now wondering if AI might be worth the additional coin. I know LE vs. AI is a constant argument on here, and I'm not looking to turn this thread into one of those....
I am curious though to hear from people that have gone down a similar road to me, and what the real world driveability and issues are like. Again, gears is something I am factoring into this as well. Money is not an issue here...having an end product worth the effort is.
It is likely I will have this car 20 years from now...I've already had it for 12, and I have plenty of room to keep it. I want to do this right.
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09-19-2012, 10:37 AM
#8
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What is the driveability like with that idea? Still ok? I see you're in Haverhill...I live about an hour and a half from you (head up to Hampton Beach all the time)...any good shops you know of out your way?
As you know, we don't have to pass MA emissions anymore...but I still want something that behaves itself, so to speak.
As you know, we don't have to pass MA emissions anymore...but I still want something that behaves itself, so to speak.
also not taking anything away from ion, I had a few of his tunes and was always happy but for heads/cam check out these guys if your not going to/can't get dyno tuned>
http://www.lt1pcmtuning.com/service/
http://www.fastchip.com/
Last edited by z_speedfreak; 09-19-2012 at 10:49 AM.
09-19-2012, 10:39 AM
#9
On The Tree
Thread Starter
There are some shops in CT in and around Hartford...I just don't know a damn thing about any of them.
09-19-2012, 10:41 AM
#10
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Southampton here...just north of Springfield. Yeah, you know...the end of the state no one gives a **** about 
I came up with hot cam due to...
1) A fair amount of positive reviews on them, on here (admittedly, there was an equal number of positive reviews on AI and LE cams, as well as CC)
2) An affinity to GMPP stuff...which is probably stupid
09-19-2012, 10:44 AM
#11
On The Tree
Thread Starter
No brainer then: 4.11s. Do M6 guys even mention/consider 3.73s?
I noticed this cam on Lloyd's site:
224/230 .573/.568 112 LSA. That would look about right to me if I were after what the OP has stated. Plus it could easily be tweaked a little considering he doesn't need to pass emissions (although that doesn't mean jumping right away to a 110 LSA).
I noticed this cam on Lloyd's site:
224/230 .573/.568 112 LSA. That would look about right to me if I were after what the OP has stated. Plus it could easily be tweaked a little considering he doesn't need to pass emissions (although that doesn't mean jumping right away to a 110 LSA).
2) I looked at that cam last night...seems intriguing. Any comments as to the streetability of the cam?? I do not anticipate shifting this thing over 6000...I don't have the ***** to hurt this motor.
09-19-2012, 11:33 AM
#12
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I'm on my second Hot cammed car not by choice lol This car already came with it. Its better than stock but if doing a heads and cam package hit up advanced induction and talk to Phil they have the best imo head cam package you can buy for these cars.
09-19-2012, 12:29 PM
#13
On The Tree
Thread Starter
... you going from 3.40s to 4.11's is a no brainer. Doing a 3.73 swap wouldn't even be worth the time/$ IMO for what you'd get.
To best answer your second part you need to find folks who run that cam and I'd recommend talking to Lloyd himself about it. Just comparing numbers it is likely going to be very close to how a hot cam handles. With the hot cam its possible to get it to pass emissions; this is Lloyd's "largest" (for lack of better word) cam for passing emissions with, you get a little more timing and a LOT more lift (which is the biggest advantage), same LSA although timing events could and likely are much different. As I said before someone could go with this particular cam and simply tell LE I don't need to pass emissions, and from there Lloyd may recommend or tweak it a little bit just to optimize the profile for your car and goals.
To best answer your second part you need to find folks who run that cam and I'd recommend talking to Lloyd himself about it. Just comparing numbers it is likely going to be very close to how a hot cam handles. With the hot cam its possible to get it to pass emissions; this is Lloyd's "largest" (for lack of better word) cam for passing emissions with, you get a little more timing and a LOT more lift (which is the biggest advantage), same LSA although timing events could and likely are much different. As I said before someone could go with this particular cam and simply tell LE I don't need to pass emissions, and from there Lloyd may recommend or tweak it a little bit just to optimize the profile for your car and goals.
2) I think I need to hear more from people with this cam...once I narrow it down to 1-2 choices, I plan to make calls with a list of questions for the final choice.
At this point, I wanted to hear from some people and see what I might be missing. Now I'm researching 10 bolts and fuel issues, hoping all I need to do is bigger injectors to rectify that...
09-19-2012, 12:52 PM
#15
On The Tree
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I was reading on another board LE's 224/230 cam may be a little more radical than I was wanting...talking about it being pretty lopey and spewing unburned fuel. I would imagine the fuel issue could be due to a bad tune, however? I don't mind lopey...but I don't want to put on new LTs with fresh cats and screw them up...
09-19-2012, 02:03 PM
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My vote if its mostly a street car go with the A.I. 190cc package. It makes TONS of low end power that you will enjoy the most driving around and wouldn't be a slouch at the track either.
09-19-2012, 02:55 PM
#18
I also agree that the hotcam is the wrong cam for LE2 heads.
If you want to run the hotcam, I would buy only the cam, not the kit. Then get some good valve springs and rocker arms. Then you can always add a 100shot. Plus if you buy good parts you can use them in another build down the road if you want to add heads and a different cam. The lt4 springs i hear barely control its .525 lift.
If your set on doing heads/cam...get one of AI's or LE's cam to go with it like everyone has been saying.
Ill be ditching my stupid big 600 lift cam for a hotcam this fall...engine is already halfway apart to get to the lifters. I think the hotcam is a good cam, it seems to run just as fast as any other cam only car, but its street friendly and fuel friendly, not a cam you hope you dont hit traffic with, and not a cam you should get bad cam surge from.
good luck to you!
If you want to run the hotcam, I would buy only the cam, not the kit. Then get some good valve springs and rocker arms. Then you can always add a 100shot. Plus if you buy good parts you can use them in another build down the road if you want to add heads and a different cam. The lt4 springs i hear barely control its .525 lift.
If your set on doing heads/cam...get one of AI's or LE's cam to go with it like everyone has been saying.
Ill be ditching my stupid big 600 lift cam for a hotcam this fall...engine is already halfway apart to get to the lifters. I think the hotcam is a good cam, it seems to run just as fast as any other cam only car, but its street friendly and fuel friendly, not a cam you hope you dont hit traffic with, and not a cam you should get bad cam surge from.
good luck to you!
09-19-2012, 02:58 PM
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Jason,
Nice to see you over here. Here's my $0.02.
1-3) With what you have planned for tires and staying with the 10 bolt behind an M6, my recommendation is to stay with the stock 3.42s. Going to a shorter gear is just going to exacerbate a traction problem I'm sure you already have at your current power level and reduce your gas mileage.
4) Stay with your stock injectors and intake manifold, they will be enough for what you're doing.
You should be able to find LT1 cores for about $150-$200. Keep in mind there are, I believe, two different castings, 374s and 643s; the 374s have a little more meat on them for porting so keep that in mind. It's been beaten to death on here, but you can't go wrong with LE or AI.
As far as the cam, there are numerous "shelf" grinds that are better than the Hot Cam. I have the Comp Cams 269HR-12 and it drives great, power everywhere. Comp also makes an XFI grind with basically the same duration but more lift (268XFI HR13); LE also has a grind that's very similar. If those grinds were out when I did the cam/heads on my car, that's what I would've chosen.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP...g_2012_186.pdf
http://elliottsportworks.com/?page_id=32
I also have my PCM tuned by Madtuner. I'm pretty happy with it, but I plan on getting a dyno tune this winter. If there are any good tuners in your area, I'd recommend doing that because it will make your cammed car drive that much better.
Definitely go with long tube headers, you'll be thankful for the extra power and the first time you go to change spark plugs.
Lastly, don't forget to budget for all the ancilliary crap like the buttload of gaskets, bolts, and hoses you're going to end up needing for the job. Good luck.
Nice to see you over here. Here's my $0.02.
1-3) With what you have planned for tires and staying with the 10 bolt behind an M6, my recommendation is to stay with the stock 3.42s. Going to a shorter gear is just going to exacerbate a traction problem I'm sure you already have at your current power level and reduce your gas mileage.
4) Stay with your stock injectors and intake manifold, they will be enough for what you're doing.
You should be able to find LT1 cores for about $150-$200. Keep in mind there are, I believe, two different castings, 374s and 643s; the 374s have a little more meat on them for porting so keep that in mind. It's been beaten to death on here, but you can't go wrong with LE or AI.
As far as the cam, there are numerous "shelf" grinds that are better than the Hot Cam. I have the Comp Cams 269HR-12 and it drives great, power everywhere. Comp also makes an XFI grind with basically the same duration but more lift (268XFI HR13); LE also has a grind that's very similar. If those grinds were out when I did the cam/heads on my car, that's what I would've chosen.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP...g_2012_186.pdf
http://elliottsportworks.com/?page_id=32
I also have my PCM tuned by Madtuner. I'm pretty happy with it, but I plan on getting a dyno tune this winter. If there are any good tuners in your area, I'd recommend doing that because it will make your cammed car drive that much better.
Definitely go with long tube headers, you'll be thankful for the extra power and the first time you go to change spark plugs.
Lastly, don't forget to budget for all the ancilliary crap like the buttload of gaskets, bolts, and hoses you're going to end up needing for the job. Good luck.
09-19-2012, 03:01 PM
#20
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I may be a noob here, but I've owned 2 4th gens and 6 third gens since 1998. I know, and love, these cars. With the money I saved up for a 5th gen, when I saw how crappy the inside was and what a bloated pig it was, I bought my IROC and kept my Z So my NEW, revised combo....
1) LE2 heads, LE ported intake
2) Either LE 224/230 cam or 218/224 cam (a little nervous running "the biggest emissions friendly cam")...
3) SW LTs with high flow cats
4) 4.10s
5) Injectors? AFPR? Fuel pump?
OR
Swap LE stuff for AI 200cc package...
Any help with the above questions is appreciated. The car currently wears a mint, 12 year old SLP 2OTL, but I am considering taking that off and putting it on my IROC. I have an SLP Power Flo I can put on it that is currently on my 2000 SS. I have the SS's original OEM SLP Dual Dual I figured I can cut the cone of silence out of, and throw that back on that car to make it 100% original (PO didn't know about the cone and ripped it off for the Power Flo).
I still need help on a shop in the Northeast...anyone? Is $5k or less a reasonable budget to hand someone the keys, and get the car back ready to run? THANK YOU to everyone for your help...like I said, I have 6 months to plan this out, but I wanna get my ducks in a row ahead of time...