Forged vs Hypereutectic
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From: Orlando
Forged vs Hypereutectic I know this topic has been raped like jenna jameson, but in a daily driver high rpm build with 450-520hp which is better? Ive heard negative things about both forged and eutectic. Forged heard had things in daily drivers, and brittle & not liking Nitrous or boost with eutectic. Why should I choose forged over stockers?
What negative about forged have you heard?
Yeah they cost more than hyper and sometimes have a little piston slap at cold start, but I would go forged all day long. I have them and have just a little slap in the morning but its gone in a mile or two.
Yeah they cost more than hyper and sometimes have a little piston slap at cold start, but I would go forged all day long. I have them and have just a little slap in the morning but its gone in a mile or two.
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From: Orlando
Yeah I heard they dont like cold starts and tend to expand when heated up. I read somewhere on yellowbullet that hypers are better for daily drivers, but glad there are forums. I might aswell just go with J.E domes. I like to know what all the negative things about something before I get those things. Besides compression any negative things I should look out for when it comes to domes vs 2 valve reliefs in a daily driver?
Domes are going to push your compression way up so you might want to look into that and check your compression ratio before buying pistons. Also 4032 alloy pistons don't expand as much as the 2618 alloy so you can run a tighter piston to wall clearance.
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From: In the garage fixing LT1
Get forged hypereutectics. Non hypereutectics have a high expansion and contraction factor making them less efficient, and they knock on startup. Forged hypereutectics are expensive but well worth it because they seal better and are much stronger than regular forged.
Anyway, back to reality........ If you're going to buy pistons for ANY kind of serious build, buy forged. I run the stock hypers in mine, but it was strictly a BUDGET build, and I'm VERY careful with it despite what the numbers show.
90% of the motors out there are going to be exposed to careless/inexperienced tuners and careless/inexperienced owners. Forged is cheap insurance against that. If you're a performance enthusiast at all and don't demand OEM NVH standards, I don't see any downsides to them.
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Domes are a bad idea, you getting advise from someone accustomed to 76cc 80s crap heads?
Far as forged as killerz97 was saying there are serveral different materials pistons can be forged from and for a driver a 4032 will be quieter than a 2618 but stronger than a hypereutetic. Something like a Mahle Powerpak is a good bargain. What is the selection in nice hypereutetic pistons with a comparable ring package and such?
If spending the coin on a full build spend the coin for a little overkill it is almost always cheaper in the long run., once buying pistons I would go ahead and do a 6.0" aftermarket rod too, not a lot more cost than reconditioning stockers, get them bushed and assembly is easier than pressed like stock.
"middle ground" is pretty much not worthwhile I would only do as Pat did and refresh completely stock or go to something like a Mahle Powerpak and 6.0" rods basically nothing I would consider in between.
Far as forged as killerz97 was saying there are serveral different materials pistons can be forged from and for a driver a 4032 will be quieter than a 2618 but stronger than a hypereutetic. Something like a Mahle Powerpak is a good bargain. What is the selection in nice hypereutetic pistons with a comparable ring package and such?
If spending the coin on a full build spend the coin for a little overkill it is almost always cheaper in the long run., once buying pistons I would go ahead and do a 6.0" aftermarket rod too, not a lot more cost than reconditioning stockers, get them bushed and assembly is easier than pressed like stock.
"middle ground" is pretty much not worthwhile I would only do as Pat did and refresh completely stock or go to something like a Mahle Powerpak and 6.0" rods basically nothing I would consider in between.
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IMO I always buy forged parts for high performance builds because I know how I like to drive. If you've got to replace stuff makes since to upgrade, so if you're rebuilding the engine and have to "replace parts anyway" spend the extra money for the forged parts for the piece of mind.
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From: Orlando
Never heard of forged hypers. Please enlighten me. Im sure if there was such a thing the LS7's would have those.
Just get a good set of forged 4032's They run a tight clearance and don't have a lot of piston slap.
Hyper- just means that the amount of silicon in the aluminum alloy is at a high level comparably.
all pistons have silicon in the alloy(for this argument). The way a piston is produced/manufactured has little to no difference in how much silicon content in the alloy is present. manufactures make pistons out of a few different alloys to produce difference results for very different purposes. Do i need to go into detail about this? no a piston/pissing contest needs not to exist. there are many builds that have pistons in them that really never needed to be in there, but also builds that didn't have a strong enough piston to do the work that was intended for them. Each build will have its very own specific need for types of building materials.
yes a good quality hyper-eutectic non forged piston can handle 450-500 hp, maybe more, if kept in the rpm range it was meant to handle; also if detonation is kept in check. Really, detonation is pretty much the number one cause of piston failures, so even a quality forged unit can be destroyed in a few races if left unmanageable.
The biggest question is...
How "high" is a high rpm build to you?
6500, 7000, 8000, 9500?
I'm guessing stock stroke?
Hyper- just means that the amount of silicon in the aluminum alloy is at a high level comparably.
all pistons have silicon in the alloy(for this argument). The way a piston is produced/manufactured has little to no difference in how much silicon content in the alloy is present. manufactures make pistons out of a few different alloys to produce difference results for very different purposes. Do i need to go into detail about this? no a piston/pissing contest needs not to exist. there are many builds that have pistons in them that really never needed to be in there, but also builds that didn't have a strong enough piston to do the work that was intended for them. Each build will have its very own specific need for types of building materials.
yes a good quality hyper-eutectic non forged piston can handle 450-500 hp, maybe more, if kept in the rpm range it was meant to handle; also if detonation is kept in check. Really, detonation is pretty much the number one cause of piston failures, so even a quality forged unit can be destroyed in a few races if left unmanageable.
The biggest question is...
How "high" is a high rpm build to you?
6500, 7000, 8000, 9500?
I'm guessing stock stroke?
^^^ Just get a good set of 4032 forged pistons & be done with it, as stated! Now if you wanted to spray 300 on it then a 2618 would be special ordered for your combo!! But 4032 is better for a Daily Driver!!!
The 4032 alloy is a higher silicon content so maybe that is what me meant when he said "Forged hypereutectics" not that that makes him right, just potentially clears up where he is going wrong.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; Oct 29, 2012 at 12:14 PM.
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From: Orlando
Thanks guys for the recommendations. Im not ******* speedy but I thought he was a 10 year member. Shouldnt he have enough knowledge to know there isnt forged hypers? Boy and I thought I was fooling myself 
Last edited by 93Euphoria; Oct 29, 2012 at 07:05 PM.
I hate to get into a topic thats been beaten like Rhianna, but forged is really only needed if you are going to spray at all. Hyper, even cast pistons, have been well into the 10s, without issues.
Hypereutectics are a budget friendly daily driver application that don't like xtreme combustion pressure. If you are going to be pushing over 400 rwhp and running it get a set of mahle powerpak pistons. They are a great forged piston. For all out racing and bigger shots of nitrous get a good set of 2618 forged pistons. It all depends on your budget and what you plan to do as far as performance. Love the response Quazz.
You know if I said that 8 people would post about what an ******* I am........................
Not disagreeing with you one bit, just saying...........
bufmatmuslepants
You are right about what materials can handle BUT at the same time can you give us a list of all the aftermarket cast and hypereutetic pistons that are at least as nice as the stock LT1 pistons, same weight or lighter, same or better ring pack, good company so the machining tolerances are good?
Yeah you can buy gen 1 pistons cheap but far as an aftermarket hypereutetic piston light as stock with a comparable ringpack I don't know of any. On summit I found a Sealed power that had the metric ringpack BUY as best I could find searching the web it weighs 129grams more than a stock LT1 piston which is a LOT of additional load on the rods/bolts/bearings so there is a real argument to be made it is a step backwards durability wise. Those were $324, a few hundred more on a 4032 forged gets you a little overkill to grow with and provide a little insurance against tuning mistakes, a lighter piston that makes the rotating assembly more durable.............
If you don't want to spend the money on a decent entry level forged piston I would just stick with the stockers, they are reasonably light and have a nice ring package, nice and easy to balance the motor with them too
You know if I said that 8 people would post about what an ******* I am........................
Not disagreeing with you one bit, just saying...........
bufmatmuslepants
You are right about what materials can handle BUT at the same time can you give us a list of all the aftermarket cast and hypereutetic pistons that are at least as nice as the stock LT1 pistons, same weight or lighter, same or better ring pack, good company so the machining tolerances are good?
Yeah you can buy gen 1 pistons cheap but far as an aftermarket hypereutetic piston light as stock with a comparable ringpack I don't know of any. On summit I found a Sealed power that had the metric ringpack BUY as best I could find searching the web it weighs 129grams more than a stock LT1 piston which is a LOT of additional load on the rods/bolts/bearings so there is a real argument to be made it is a step backwards durability wise. Those were $324, a few hundred more on a 4032 forged gets you a little overkill to grow with and provide a little insurance against tuning mistakes, a lighter piston that makes the rotating assembly more durable.............
If you don't want to spend the money on a decent entry level forged piston I would just stick with the stockers, they are reasonably light and have a nice ring package, nice and easy to balance the motor with them too
Not disagreeing with you one bit, just saying...........
bufmatmuslepants
You are right about what materials can handle BUT at the same time can you give us a list of all the aftermarket cast and hypereutetic pistons that are at least as nice as the stock LT1 pistons, same weight or lighter, same or better ring pack, good company so the machining tolerances are good?
Yeah you can buy gen 1 pistons cheap but far as an aftermarket hypereutetic piston light as stock with a comparable ringpack I don't know of any. On summit I found a Sealed power that had the metric ringpack BUY as best I could find searching the web it weighs 129grams more than a stock LT1 piston which is a LOT of additional load on the rods/bolts/bearings so there is a real argument to be made it is a step backwards durability wise. Those were $324, a few hundred more on a 4032 forged gets you a little overkill to grow with and provide a little insurance against tuning mistakes, a lighter piston that makes the rotating assembly more durable.............
If you don't want to spend the money on a decent entry level forged piston I would just stick with the stockers, they are reasonably light and have a nice ring package, nice and easy to balance the motor with them too